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orwell84
Samba Member
Joined: May 14, 2007
Posts: 2755
Location: Plattsburgh, New York
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 Posted: Fri May 16, 2025 5:40 am Post subject: Re: Engine/Tranmission removed where and how would you start? |
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| poundman wrote: |
| timvw7476 wrote: |
That final image?, the soft-seal from below, is the hot air passage to the former dual-carb air cleaner assembly. It sent hot air upwards for warm-up drivability.
It rubbed up against the main box that held the air cleaner paper element, which then split off to the two separate carbs. The left (driver's) side one also featured the idle circuit & had a manifold that split that mixture between the two carbs........ yeah. Complex. Kinda. |
Thanks, I figured it was something like that. I assume when people replace the older carbs they just leave it as is? Not much ability to reuse for a new air cleaner setup. |
The original dual carb system worked quite well when properly maintained and had a number of features that improved driveability. But it might require a prolonged parts hunt and there are other good options that are more straightforward.
Start with careful disassembly and see what youโve got. Clean, sort and take pictures as you go. This will dictate your parts list. Also consider how you want to use your bus. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52085
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| Posted: Fri May 16, 2025 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: Engine/Tranmission removed where and how would you start? |
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| poundman wrote: |
| Thanks @wildthing. I appreciate the link. Also, what is the purpose of peening? Is it to help ensure the pressed in plugs don't pop out? I will have to look at mine. I do know this was a replacement or refurbished engine, not the original. |
The plugs are notorious for blowing out and if it happens to a hot engine under load, the engine will be damaged before the oil light can come on. These plugs in stock form take amazingly little force to pull out. |
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Abscate 
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 23600
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2025 1:38 am Post subject: Re: Engine/Tranmission removed where and how would you start? |
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Donโt use that picture as a guide for peening technique. Peenin should a bit of metal from the edge of the slot to press against the plug, not digits away from the plug. This will keep the motor oil in your galleries, and your olive oil in the galley
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๐บ๐ธ ๐บ๐ธ ๐บ๐ธ ๐บ๐ธ ๐บ๐ธ ๐บ๐ธ ๐บ๐ธ ๐ ๐ ๐ |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52085
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2025 8:14 am Post subject: Re: Engine/Tranmission removed where and how would you start? |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| Donโt use that picture as a guide for peening technique. Peenin should a bit of metal from the edge of the slot to press against the plug, not digits away from the plug. This will keep the motor oil in your galleries, and your olive oil in the galley |
I would say that it takes 10 times the force to remove a plug peened that way compared to a stock plug as it is very effective. |
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Globedog12
Samba Member
Joined: April 11, 2024
Posts: 168
Location: Atlanta, GA
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2025 5:37 pm Post subject: Re: Engine/Tranmission removed where and how would you start? |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
| Donโt use that picture as a guide for peening technique. Peenin should a bit of metal from the edge of the slot to press against the plug, not digits away from the plug. This will keep the motor oil in your galleries, and your olive oil in the galley |
I would say that it takes 10 times the force to remove a plug peened that way compared to a stock plug as it is very effective. |
I have my motor out and stripped doing top end. This is not something I have thought about but I might as well now. Are you saying that the peening in the pic is effective or not?
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1976 VW Type 2 Original fuel injection |
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poundman
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2024
Posts: 336
Location: Sugar Land, Texas
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2025 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: Engine/Tranmission removed where and how would you start? |
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I did a lot of cleaning and tear down today. Gunk engine cleaner and some scrubbing. I have a few questions to move forward tomorrow. When I separated the transmission and engine. When I did oil leaked out so I assume the main seal is bad or one of the gallery plugs is leaking. I won't know until I remove the flywheel. I think this explains why there was a lot of caked on oil on the bottom. Starter seems good but might need a rebuild while it is out. It was the first time I opened the valve covers, it seems good at first glance. Clutch seems like it has enough meat on it still.
1. How do I remove the flywheel without special tools? Best way to block the flywheel while I unbolt?
2. How does the pressure plate and clutch separate?
3. Any thing you see that looks bad?
4. Can I soak the heat exchangers to clean them inside? I think they might have some holes that need repaired at minimum.
5. Any referral to starter rebuild?
6. When I removed the heat exchangers 2 of the studs unscrewed. Should I replace them partially or fully?
7. Can I used brake cleaner on flywheel and the transmission cowling? I know I can't use that on the clutch plate.
Well that might be enough so far. Looking forward to more progress.
Thanks
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Restoring a 1972 Bay Window Bus that has not be registered for the road since 1981.
Sugar Land, Texas |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52085
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2025 6:47 am Post subject: Re: Engine/Tranmission removed where and how would you start? |
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| Globedog12 wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| Abscate wrote: |
| Donโt use that picture as a guide for peening technique. Peenin should a bit of metal from the edge of the slot to press against the plug, not digits away from the plug. This will keep the motor oil in your galleries, and your olive oil in the galley |
I would say that it takes 10 times the force to remove a plug peened that way compared to a stock plug as it is very effective. |
I have my motor out and stripped doing top end. This is not something I have thought about but I might as well now. Are you saying that the peening in the pic is effective or not? |
I have found this to be very effective as the required removal force is quite high when compared to stock. If you are tearing the engine down however you should read up on replacing the pressed in plugs with threaded tapered pipe plugs.
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Willin
Samba Member
Joined: October 10, 2019
Posts: 239
Location: Bozeman Mt
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| Posted: Sun May 18, 2025 6:22 pm Post subject: Re: Engine/Tranmission removed where and how would you start? |
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Driven for 9 years, replacement engine, then parked? We want to know more.
Looks good so far. The rockers look clean, no baked on crud.
Will there be head gaskets?
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73 bus. Org. 1700 with dual Weber 40 idfs, bus header with Empi qp muffler, CB magnaspark 2 " ready to run kit". |
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poundman
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2024
Posts: 336
Location: Sugar Land, Texas
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 6:58 am Post subject: Re: Engine/Tranmission removed where and how would you start? |
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| Willin wrote: |
Driven for 9 years, replacement engine, then parked? We want to know more.
Looks good so far. The rockers look clean, no baked on crud.
Will there be head gaskets? |
This is what I thought also when I took apart. It looked good in my eyes, both the rockers, pressure plate, flywheel and inside the transmission cowling.
I just need to get the flywheel off to examine the seal and plugs. I have a flywheel stop tool on the way. I will replace the main seal, pilot bearing, throw out bearing just because it is open. I am not sure about the clutch plate. It seems like it has a lot of meat still. I am not sure how it separates from the pressure plate.
Can I use brake cleaner on the flywheel and pressure plate once I separate from clutch plate?
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Restoring a 1972 Bay Window Bus that has not be registered for the road since 1981.
Sugar Land, Texas |
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lil-jinx
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1513
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 7:41 am Post subject: Re: Engine/Tranmission removed where and how would you start? |
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the clutch plate/disc is not attached to the pressure plate,it just sits on the transmission shaft,when you remove the pressure plate from the flywheel the clutch plate should just fall out,
by your pictures you have the clutch and pressure plate out,are you talking about removing the fibre disc from the metal disc ,this was done way back in the day when shops rebuilt things ,but not so much today ,you replace the complete disc and it's good pratice to also replace the pressure plate.
yes you can use brake clean on the fly wheel ,just as you would on a brake drum or disc,you may need to have your flywheel surface machined
,if you do have it machined,be sure that they also machine off the same amount from where the pressure plate bolts
you should not spray degreaser on the pressure plate,there is lube on the moving parts that you can not service ,degreaser may wash that lube off ,resulting in early failure,you can clean the friction surface with degreaser on a rag.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy sold dec 2024
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes. |
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poundman
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2024
Posts: 336
Location: Sugar Land, Texas
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Engine/Tranmission removed where and how would you start? |
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| lil-jinx wrote: |
the clutch plate/disc is not attached to the pressure plate,it just sits on the transmission shaft,when you remove the pressure plate from the flywheel the clutch plate should just fall out,
by your pictures you have the clutch and pressure plate out,are you talking about removing the fibre disc from the metal disc ,this was done way back in the day when shops rebuilt things ,but not so much today ,you replace the complete disc and it's good pratice to also replace the pressure plate.
yes you can use brake clean on the fly wheel ,just as you would on a brake drum or disc,you may need to have your flywheel surface machined
,if you do have it machined,be sure that they also machine off the same amount from where the pressure plate bolts
you should not spray degreaser on the pressure plate,there is lube on the moving parts that you can not service ,degreaser may wash that lube off ,resulting in early failure,you can clean the friction surface with degreaser on a rag. |
Thanks. All it took was some soft taps with rubber mallet to seperate. I will definitely replace the clutch plate, not sure about pressure plate. Why is it good practice to replace. Can't I just resurface both flywheel and pressure plate? Do they balance together with the fiber disc?
I have not cleaned anything yet.
Thanks
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Restoring a 1972 Bay Window Bus that has not be registered for the road since 1981.
Sugar Land, Texas |
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lil-jinx
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1513
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 8:58 am Post subject: Re: Engine/Tranmission removed where and how would you start? |
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you could use fine sandpaper 220 grit to clean the surfaces,if there are no marks or groves it can be reused,it all looks like it had very little use,the disc looks unworn,you could probably just clean it all up ,sand off the pressure plate and flywheel
.you would replace it all if the disc was worn out,the pressure plate will also have wear,weaker springs and a little wear at the sliding parts,SAChs sells the complete kit
from your pictures,i would not hesitate to reuse it all.if it cleans up well.
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620186
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668799
1974 Bay Westfalia. she likes to be called Ethel.
1968 Dune Buggy sold dec 2024
1974 parts bus
A smart man learns from his mistakes,a very smart man learns from other's mistakes. |
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lil-jinx
Samba Member
Joined: August 14, 2013
Posts: 1513
Location: New Brunswick,Canada
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poundman
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2024
Posts: 336
Location: Sugar Land, Texas
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 9:13 am Post subject: Re: Engine/Tranmission removed where and how would you start? |
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| lil-jinx wrote: |
| before removing the fly wheel,check your crank end play with a dial indicator, |
Good idea. Do you have a link to a recommended tool?
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Restoring a 1972 Bay Window Bus that has not be registered for the road since 1981.
Sugar Land, Texas |
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 13407
Location: West Coast, USA
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SGKent
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Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 42045
Location: at the beach
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Bnanwel
Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2022
Posts: 246
Location: Ft Lauderdale
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 11:09 am Post subject: Re: Engine/Tranmission removed where and how would you start? |
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When replacing the flywheel oil seal, donโt forget to replace the flywheel o-ring. FWIW, a full clutch kit was not much more than the clutch disk alone when I was shopping about a year ago.
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โ72 Karmann Ghia Conv.
โ73 Karmann Ghia Coupe
โ74 Karmann Ghia Coupe
โ70 Deluxe
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poundman
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2024
Posts: 336
Location: Sugar Land, Texas
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 11:10 am Post subject: Re: Engine/Tranmission removed where and how would you start? |
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| lil-jinx wrote: |
you could use fine sandpaper 220 grit to clean the surfaces,if there are no marks or groves it can be reused,it all looks like it had very little use,the disc looks unworn,you could probably just clean it all up ,sand off the pressure plate and flywheel
.you would replace it all if the disc was worn out,the pressure plate will also have wear,weaker springs and a little wear at the sliding parts,SAChs sells the complete kit
from your pictures,i would not hesitate to reuse it all.if it cleans up well. |
Awesome advice. I do think it just has surface rust and like you say seems to have little usage on it.. With so many unknowns, I might have to pull this engine again for some other reason.
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Restoring a 1972 Bay Window Bus that has not be registered for the road since 1981.
Sugar Land, Texas |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23004
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: Engine/Tranmission removed where and how would you start? |
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| poundman wrote: |
| lil-jinx wrote: |
you could use fine sandpaper 220 grit to clean the surfaces,if there are no marks or groves it can be reused,it all looks like it had very little use,the disc looks unworn,you could probably just clean it all up ,sand off the pressure plate and flywheel
.you would replace it all if the disc was worn out,the pressure plate will also have wear,weaker springs and a little wear at the sliding parts,SAChs sells the complete kit
from your pictures,i would not hesitate to reuse it all.if it cleans up well. |
Awesome advice. I do think it just has surface rust and like you say seems to have little usage on it.. With so many unknowns, I might have to pull this engine again for some other reason. |
The disc looks "OK". It's not worn per-se....but the dark ring toward the center "may" be a little oil if anything is leaking back there.
Look around. There are still more than a few places that do clutch disc rebuilds. Most are truck shops or oilfield.....you are close to Houston right? Here is an oilfield clutch shop in Houston.
https://americanclutch.com/
Ray |
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poundman
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Posts: 336
Location: Sugar Land, Texas
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