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MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4546
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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 Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 2:41 pm Post subject: Public land sell-off |
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I posted a quick notice about how Mike Lee wants to force the sales of public land in the Camp-site photo thread. Didn't want to have to start a new thread and figured camp-site thread would serve well enough.
Unfortunately that got jumped on and became a personal attack.
So, instead here we go.
This is a bad add-on to the huge budget bill currently being considered and has attracted a lot of attention from people who live, work, or use public lands. While the protest has forced Mike Lee to scale back his proposal any sales of public land should be cause for concern. The language in the bill is very vague and leaves lots of room for abuse.
Why should we as Vanagon owners care? Well, because most of us who own these wonderful machines tend to use them for camping and recreation, (whether or not it's a Westy!) and adventures away from home almost always include public land.
I'll leave it at that and let you read for yourself. This is just a few quick links, there are hundreds more! (sorry I don't know how to exclude the commercials)
https://www.fieldandstream.com/stories/conservatio...ublic-land
This guy is a bit strident and it's an older post (includes FS land) but still worth hearing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9ga7VtOhHQ
And from the other side of our divide:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVsdea78Csg
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sc...HXimo,st:0
A general search:
https://www.google.com/search?client=safari&sc...h=711#ip=1
One way to take action:
https://www.outdooralliance.org/blog/2025/6/25/sen...tion-areas
And just fyi, I'm a duel US/Canadian citizen and have to file US tax returns and vote in US elections, so I have a stake in this.
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17817
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 7:25 pm Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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There's a lot of land that could be used productively if out of fed hands. People are more or less shoved into smaller cities because the land is owned by the feds . It's causing housing costs to go crazy. They're happily strip mining the land, but you can't build some houses there.
it makes no sense.
Look around...many states are passing bullshit zoning variances for these granny pods/ADU's because of the "housing shortage"
I think some of the land should be sold....why? to prevent this bullshit:
https://www.nj.com/news/2025/05/we-just-want-to-ke...using.html
you can eat my ass if you think that's ok. This shit is why Marvin Heemeyer did what he did.
If sold, there should be a list of stipulations including the homes MUST remain out of corporate landlords hands and must be offered for sale to any first time home buyers first, then everyone else (except landlords) after that.
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 3722
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
There's a lot of land that could be used productively if out of fed hands. People are more or less shoved into smaller cities because the land is owned by the feds . It's causing housing costs to go crazy. They're happily strip mining the land, but you can't build some houses there.
it makes no sense.
Look around...many states are passing bullshit zoning variances for these granny pods/ADU's because of the "housing shortage"
I think some of the land should be sold....why? to prevent this bullshit:
https://www.nj.com/news/2025/05/we-just-want-to-ke...using.html
you can eat my ass if you think that's ok. This shit is why Marvin Heemeyer did what he did.
If sold, there should be a list of stipulations including the homes MUST remain out of corporate landlords hands and must be offered for sale to any first time home buyers first, then everyone else (except landlords) after that. |
Mineral and oil rights should be sold too. Lower energy prices will result if we drill which is a benefit to the nation. As for the homes, That is good too, but I dont like the restriction of sales to first time home owners only, that aint right
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photogdave
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2004
Posts: 3136
Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 3722
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| photogdave wrote: |
| People should stop having so many damn kids. |
And your parents?
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photogdave
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2004
Posts: 3136
Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
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dhaavers
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 8371
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 9:45 pm Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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Yes, I’m aware of the issue.
No, I didn’t click your links (because I’m aware of the issue).
I take action by contacting my legislators.
If you have an issue with another thread, report it. Everett is the decider, not the forum mods or any mere member. It’s not a popularity contest.
Good luck…be careful out there.
- Dave
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 71477
Location: Phoenix 602
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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Yes, if there is some political stuff in another thread, hit Report on it.
The Leno law thread can be political by it's very nature since it's a law but I know we have already moderated it a bunch to remove posts unrelated to the topic.
I am not actively reading it so rely on reports or the individual section moderator(s) to decide.
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Last edited by EverettB on Thu Jun 26, 2025 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 3722
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| Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2025 10:01 pm Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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I read some of the links from the first post. Looks like a lot of this sell off is for gas and oil extraction. We need such resources so we can continue to enjoy our classic VW's, to be able to drive to camp, and enjoy public and private lands. The amount to be sold is very small. Heck some of this public land is on the continental shelf even.
Seems like this maybe good use of our resources.
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oprn
Samba Member
Joined: November 13, 2016
Posts: 14704
Location: Western Canada
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 5:16 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| photogdave wrote: |
| People should stop having so many damn kids. |
Oh wow! That rhetoric was pounded into our heads at school by the teachers 50 years ago. "The world is headed for a massive overpopulation crisis." "Only uneducated primitive people have large families so don't be stupid!"
So... what do we have today as a result? And average birth rate (last I checked) of 0.8 per family! Labor shortages especially at the entry levels, ballooning taxes to try and cover the shortfall in government budgets as the bulge in the demographics moves into retirement. Strained medical systems, senior housing and facilities as this aging population moves through.
In desperation to right the economic situation governments open the immigration floodgates to try and correct the imbalance and keep the economy growing. Nobody seems to like that...
And it all started with "People should stop having so many kids!"
China tried that with a 1 child policy, realized their mistake and have reversed it. Now it seems they have switched to buying up public and private land in other countries.
Rant over, sorry!
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photogdave
Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2004
Posts: 3136
Location: Vancouver Island, B.C.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 6:46 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| oprn wrote: |
| photogdave wrote: |
| People should stop having so many damn kids. |
Oh wow! That rhetoric was pounded into our heads at school by the teachers 50 years ago. "The world is headed for a massive overpopulation crisis." "Only uneducated primitive people have large families so don't be stupid!" |
I didn't hear that from any of my teachers.
The world's population has more than doubled in my lifetime. The size of the planet hasn't.
We are literally destroying the Earth — ripping out forests, irreversibly damaging ecosystems, driving other species to extinction — just to house all the extra humans. Why? So they can "grow the economy"?
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jimf909
Samba Member
Joined: April 03, 2014
Posts: 8159
Location: WA/ID
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 7:34 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
This shit is why Marvin Heemeyer did what he did.
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Oh good grief. Marvin Heemeyer did what he did because he disagreed with reasonable people and reacted in an entirely unreasonable way causing millions in property damage before killing himself. As in many of these cases he was spot-on with the solution but screwed up with the order of completion.
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| Butcher wrote: |
| This is the main fault with DIY'ers, they get together on these forums and pat themselves on their backs spreading bad information. |
Guilty as charged.
Current: 1990 Westy Camper - Bostig RG4, 2wd, manual trans w/Peloquin, NAHT high-top, 280 ah LFP battery, 160 watts solar, Flash Silver, seam rust, bondo, etc., etc.
Past: 1985 Westy Camper - 1.9 wbx, 2wd, manual trans, Merian Brown, (sold after 17 years to Northwesty who converted it to a Syncro). |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17817
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 7:52 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| MsTaboo wrote: |
So sad a sensible issue can bring out the worst in people.
Did some of you even take the time to listen to the messages? I included a couple from "your side" of the fence.
This really isn't a left or right issue but rather about the theft of public lands.
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"theft of public lands" ?
how so? if we the people own it, we the people should be able to decide what happens with it, and that is what the elected officials are tasked to do as they are voted in to do so.
The US is 2.6 billion acres. The US government "owns" almost 30% of it. I think we can afford to slice off a bit
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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SCM
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 3357
Location: Bozeman MT
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 9:07 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| photogdave wrote: |
| People should stop having so many damn kids. |
I think most developed countries, including the US and particularly Japan, are experiencing declines in birth rates and overall population. Population booms in some parts of the US are at the expense of ever shrinking communities in other parts of the country.
I tend to think the housing crisis in the US isn't so much a crisis of housing supply but rather affordability. There's better profit margins in higher end houses / apartments so that's what's being built. At least in my town, the luxury apartment developers overbuilt and we're finally starting to see the rents on those come down as the vacancy rate is somewhere around 20%. Rents are still around $1500/month for a single bedroom (that's the same as my mortgage payment) and as much as $3,000 for something bigger.
I disagree with Skills assessment suggesting that opening up more land for building will drop housing prices. At least in the Western US much of the lands that would be transferred to the states is mountainous and very difficult / expensive to build on and keep clear of snow in the winter. The states can't afford to administer those lands and I would argue MOST have no mineral wealth to extract. About a quarter of public lands are under some sort of mineral withdrawal restrictions and that includes Wilderness Areas and national parks that are not currently under consideration for sale. Most other places with mineral value are already being or have been mined. Other than some logging, I don't see a public land sale as providing much in the way of mining or energy extraction.
No, with little or no resource value and the states not having money to manage them, these lands will get sold to billionaires to build their castles from where they can look down at all us unwashed masses while blocking access to the remaining public lands.
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SCM
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 3357
Location: Bozeman MT
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| The US government "owns" almost 30% of it. I think we can afford to slice off a bit |
No they don't. They hold it in trust for the people. As I explain in my other post, "slicing off a bit" isn't going to benefit anyone but the uber wealthy.
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zerotofifty
Samba Member
Joined: December 27, 2003
Posts: 3722
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 9:34 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| SCM wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| The US government "owns" almost 30% of it. I think we can afford to slice off a bit |
No they don't. They hold it in trust for the people. As I explain in my other post, "slicing off a bit" isn't going to benefit anyone but the uber wealthy. |
Reducing our debt benefits us all, not only the uber wealthy.
Oil extraction brings on good jobs and reduces the price oil which will help many at all levels of income.
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raygreenwood
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Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23094
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 9:57 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| EverettB wrote: |
Yes, if there is some political stuff in another thread, hit Report on it.
The Leno law thread can be political by it's very nature since it's a law but I know we have already moderated it a bunch to remove posts unrelated to the topic.
I am not actively reading it so rely on reports or the individual section moderator(s) to decide. |
^^^^ this right here is a problem....IMHO.
DR. Everett....yours is a thankless job! BUT.....far too many times in these threads....when the discussion waxes moderately political....WE....can generally work it out WITHOUT Censorship. It's probably why the EV thread got to 200-ish pages.
However, reacting to "reports" and "complaints".....and censoring by deleting....I can tell you....and I am betting probably for sure....that the vast majority of these reports and complaints come from one side of the political fence.
I perceive that It's usually people with thinner skin, less control over their "feelings" and are usually less well researched and prepared for a debate over what they probably were the first to state.
Lastly, if these debates that wax political were in an individual VW type forum like type 3 or bay bus....they should be squashed/locked....but NOT censoring or deleting posts.
However, the "general chat" and "off topic" forums.....are just that. It's off topic....and/or its people chatting. Many hundreds of threads are not even VW or automotive centric.
If people get butt-hurt from a short stint of political conversation....especially if it actually has bearing on the subject at hand....let them block it or stay out of the the thread.
Why should THEIR complaining, bitching or reporting result in the rest of us losing a source of interest or entertainment?
Ray |
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 8426
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 11:17 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
However, reacting to "reports" and "complaints".....and censoring by deleting....I can tell you....and I am betting probably for sure....that the vast majority of these reports and complaints come from one side of the political fence.
I perceive that It's usually people with thinner skin, less control over their "feelings" and are usually less well researched and prepared for a debate over what they probably were the first to state.
Lastly, if these debates that wax political were in an individual VW type forum like type 3 or bay bus....they should be squashed/locked....but NOT censoring or deleting posts.
However, the "general chat" and "off topic" forums.....are just that. It's off topic....and/or its people chatting. Many hundreds of threads are not even VW or automotive centric. |
Let me assure you that complaints come from BOTH sides of the political spectrum.
This very topic that you posted in is a repost from the same discussion that sparked in a Vanagon Forum PHOTO gallery thread, which was removed (the discussion, not the thread). The majority of us go on road trips to escape politics and other daily BS. Our photo threads act as the same. We want to view landscapes without having to read a bunch of political opinions (and other discussions).
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| If people get butt-hurt from a short stint of political conversation....especially if it actually has bearing on the subject at hand....let them block it or stay out of the the thread. |
If you can't keep your political thoughts to yourself in a photo or technical thread, stay out of the thread.
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SCM
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 3357
Location: Bozeman MT
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 11:20 am Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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| zerotofifty wrote: |
Oil extraction brings on good jobs and reduces the price oil which will help many at all levels of income. |
We already produce about 20% of the world's oil from both private and public lands ( https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=709&t=6 ) and are a net exporter of oil. I also don't think oil prices are controlled simply through supply and demand since you have OPEC and other socio-political factors coming into play. Are we charging a premium for the oil we export in order to keep domestic prices in check? Could we tweak that a bit if the price of oil is our biggest concern?
But more importantly and more relevant to the topic at hand, why should we sell off BLM/USFS land when oil and gas are currently extracted from those lands via lease agreements with those land management agencies?
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MsTaboo
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4546
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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| Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2025 12:10 pm Post subject: Re: Public land sell-off |
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Good grief, and I'm being accused of posting political content?
I could go into long detailed refutation of a lot of this but then that would be against the rules.
Seems like a lot of a certain reply is very much a case of shooting the messenger.
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Currently:
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The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
All that's needed for evil to prevail is for good people to do nothing.
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