Poor window tracking in guides

[Lou-Lou]

Hello all,

I'll post on the subject matter shortly. I should first introduce myself. We're new to vintage VW, having acquired a 1971 Fastback.

I showed my wife a lot of vintage cars over the years (including bugs), but nothing excited her like this red on black fastback. So, we were able to make a deal on a low (but unknown) mileage car, with very solid bones. Every indication is that the car was never opened in any way, and only received basic maintenance (and no extra love).

Our local vintage VW specialist got the mechanicals running great.We're on the road, and have started to address a list of non-mechanical challenges.

I have been self-educating on the internet for a bit, and I have settled on Samba as the most likely best online community for this new-to-us automotive journey. Thank-you in advance for your patience and cooperation...!

[Lou-Lou]

So, both windows are not smooth in their travel, and quite stiff through the whole travel. Oddly, the passenger side, which presumably has less use, is worse than the driver's side.

Hence, I started on the passenger side to try to figure it out. Panel came off well, and original plastic 'vapour barrier' is intact.

I liberally lubed the vertical guides with silicone spray, which helped some. The window now travels down much easier, and almost perfectly aligned. I can feel some binding in the last third of the travel. Since the window is partially out of the rear guide when down, the binding is at/in the front guide.

As far as I can tell, these guides are not adjustable in any way.

When raising the window, the rear of the glass goes up immediately without resistance for the the 1st third of the 1st rotation of the crank. Manually pushing up on the front side (with more force than you would think would be required) realigns the glass vertically. Do this for two more thirds of the first rotation, and it reaches a point of almost normal operation.

I removed the two 10mm bolts that secure that front guide to the door. (Window in the up position). Observed what happens when cranking window down:

- the top bolt hole barely moves.
- there is still quite a bit of resistance.
- the lower bolt hole moves forward by close to 1/2in.

I figured I have enough info to ask for advice... I do plan on removing the glass & winder from the door for complete cleaning and lubrication. The winder seems quite OK despite its driep up lube.

The stress from the window operation caused the four holes in the sheetmetal for the four bolts that hold the winder to now be out-of-round... This window tracking problem may have been there from Day One...?!

Cheers, Ben

[squaretobehip]

I think you should probably consider rebuilding the doors at this point. Without pictures and knowing the overall condition the doors and components are in, it's hard to offer solid advice. The mechanics of the door are fairly simple, but after 60-ish years, you are probably dealing with a number of factors. The regulator is probably dry and the condition of the spring is probably unknown at this point. I see a lot of regulators where the pivot point on the regulator is basically cracked in half. Maybe the regulators are bad, or need to be cleaned and re-greased. The felts and rubber are 60-ish years old at this point. Maybe the felts are kinked or falling apart. The window channel that's attached to the bottom of the door glass might be kinked. The rubber between it and the glass is probably petrified at this point. Maybe it's loose on the glass due to shrinkage.

Everything I mentioned should be fairly easy to inspect without a full rebuild. But seeing as how old everything is, I would think about rebuilding the doors by replacing the perishables and inspecting the actual components. A lot happens over 60 years.
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[Ossipon]

Others will reply, but I will provide an initial welcome. The window guides are tricky, but very simple in design. Keep in mind, while the Type III is a slightly higher end than they Type 1. The design and implementation is directed towards economy and limited flexibility.
You might read @MaxWelton or @Squaretobehip installations and restorations of the the windows for better understanding. Their efforts offer a wealth of detail.
Bottom line, the most common reason for stiffness is due to one of three locations
See this diagram: https://vwispwest.com/type3/body/door/late/
1. Window regulator.- This needs to be cleaned and lubed for best results. Just adding lubrication may not resolve the stiffness in this area.
2. Window Channels: These can get out of alignment. But generally, they are not an issue unless someone has overhauled the window and did not put them back in line correctly
3. Window "Felt Channel": This is different than the Window Channels. These are held in place with clips and in the Window Channels themself. These can breakdown and need replacement. If they have fallen apart, the window will be loose and make it difficult to raise or lower the window.
Search this subforum on door window and you will find lots of information to help diagnose your problem.


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_________________
Ossipon
--Two truths in life: Volkswagens Rust and everything will die at some point --

VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 /Taos 24... And don't about me and my experiences with my Dasher and Quantum

[Bobnotch]

One common thing I've found over the years with dealing in the raising and lowering of the side windows is the sound deadening pad(?) is usually trying to fall off the inner door skin. Most times when it does this, it fouls with the window winder mechanism (makes it hard to roll up, or limits how far it'll drop down). I've run across on multiple cars that came from multiple states too, although the hot states seem to have this problem more often after being in a cold state for a while. It's like the adhesive just gives up sticking, and the tar paper sound deadener just rolls off into the mechanism and causes a problem.
It might be worth taking the panel and the water barrier off and having a look or feel to see if this is going on inside your doors. I hope this helps.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[Lou-Lou]

[Lou-Lou]

[Lou-Lou]

[Lou-Lou]

To our American Friends, have a fantastic long weekend this weekend!!

So, my next step is to remove the glass & winder. It appears as though these would slip out the bottom opening as one assembly.... Can anyone confirm that before I try something foolish?

(I can't see how to unlatch the glass from the winder; probably much easier to do outside the door...)

Thank-you in advance!

[squaretobehip]

[Bobnotch]

[Lou-Lou]

Thank-you both!

I'll take another look and see if I can figure out how to pop that clip off, after letting it soak in some Deep Creep for a bit.

[Bobnotch]

[Lou-Lou]

[Ossipon]

Something I did both before and after overhaul. Remove the regulator. Then insert and slide the window up and down the felt grooves to the top. Doing it before helped me understand the best alignment of the glass. Then after, it showed me whether the glass had any tight spots as it would raise or lower.
I found I had an alignment/pinch in the front by the glass when reinstalling that would increase as I raised or lower. Once I fixed that, it slid up and down easily.
Best of luck
_________________
Ossipon
--Two truths in life: Volkswagens Rust and everything will die at some point --

VWs in my life:
Air
Type 1 - 59, 62, 63, 71 Super 68 KGhia/ Type 2 - 59 Single Cab / Type 3 - 64 Notch
Water
GTI 83, Jetta 81, 85, 87, 91 TDI, 98 TDI, 09 / New Beetle 99 / SportWagen 05, 13 / Tiguan 18 / T3 92 /Taos 24... And don't about me and my experiences with my Dasher and Quantum

[Bobnotch]

[Lou-Lou]

Thanks again; I'll post some feedback when I get back to reassembly. (It's been hotter than FL here I think...!!)

[Bobnotch]