intermittent no-start

[krusovice]

Hi,
I'm tracking an intermittent no-start in my 2001 EVC. I'm looking for confirmation/suggestions before I start throwing parts at it.

Background: when I bought my camper, the PO told me sometimes you have to turn the key a number of times to make it start (but it always starts). When it fails to start, it makes a click that sounds like it's coming from the starter, as if the solenoid is not engaging.

Battery is at least a few years old. Seems to hold a charge fine.

We were on vacation last week, and drove to the Lake of the Clouds in the Porcupine mountains in MI. The last few miles were steep, slow, and hot. After our 30 minute walk, we went back to the EVC, and it did the clicking thing until the point that it seems the battery died. Probably like 30 turns. A jump start eventually got us going.

So I got home and ordered a starter. My plan is to replace the starter and the battery.

In the box is a notification that in some cars a heat soak can lead to a voltage drop.

This has me wondering if I don't have a battery or starter issue. Has anyone else had a similar issue? If so, what worked for you?

One other questions: the starter came with a bushing. I'm pretty sure I need to compare the shaft on the starters (old and new) to see if I need this bushing. If I need it, it's just a matter of oiling it, and slotting it into the opening where the starter goes in. Does that sound right? (Seems obvious, but better to make sure).

Thanks for any help.
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1984 Vanagon 1.9/4 speed
2001 Eurovan Camper

[kourt]

Regarding the bushing, see my thread The great starter pilot/bearing/bushing mystery.

If this were my van, I would replace the starter and order an ignition switch to have on hand, just in case. That switch is not easy to replace.

kourt
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2001 Eurovan Winnebago Camper

[mikemtnbike]

I am not fluent with the later van platforms, so not really able to guide on statring issues other than the steps you are already taking, but chiming in to say I hope you had clear skies for Lake of the Clouds, beautiful place, was there last summer.
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1991 Vanagon GL 2.1 AT Westfauxlia. "Frankie" Totaled https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=764510&highlight=carnage
1995 Eurovan Camper "Marzivan"
2020 GTI SE manual

[61 BUS]

I'd do a load test on the battery. If it is more than about 3-4 years old, it may seem like it's fully charged when everything is off but might not be able to sustain enough voltage during an engine start when it's supplying a heavy load.
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61 Bus, 76 Beetle, 2001 Eurovan GLS, 2013 Fiat 500 Abarth, 47 Plymouth Business Coupe, 58 BMW Isetta 300

[Abscate]

Inspect the pigtail between the solenoid and starter motor to see how corroded it is.

There are two bushings used on the T4, 12mm and 13mm and you have to match the shaft on the starter you use, of course.
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🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🇺🇸 🍊 🍊 🍊

[gesoffen]

As a first round of troubleshooting, I would recommend a thorough inspection and cleaning of all the electrical interconnections between the battery, starter, starter solenoid, and grounds (both engine/trans side and body side). Also, closely inspect the battery terminal clamps for both corrosion and cracks.

All connections should be clean and bright, all cables should be free of corrosion at the connections and free of frayed strands. Repair/replace as necessary.
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1973 VW Superbeetle (1302) w/ RAT 2270 T4
2003 VW Eurovan Weekender w/ 2.8L VR6 AXK, DYA 5 Spd Manual Conversion

[krusovice]

(I wrote this in the wrong thread. Working on my phone before coffee is not smart.)

Thanks for the replies. I’d hoped to get to the van today but a flight cancellation (boo) turned into 4 days at the cabin (yay).

I did clean the connection at the starter (it looked ugly) and I thought that would do it. Alas, no. Battery connections look good/clean but I’ll remove and check them again. The chassis ground definitely needs a look.

I’m going to replace the starter anyway. I have a new one and I’ll be in there.

And for the ignition to carry, do you mean the “electrical” part - that connects to the harness - or the lock cylinder? I started searching and got myself confused.

Finally, beautiful day at Lake in the Clouds.
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1984 Vanagon 1.9/4 speed
2001 Eurovan Camper

[Saturn]

[1961tbird]

In a no start situation.

Plan to:

1. Charge battery/check connections
2. Check starter (per jump to battery as posted above)
3. Assuming #1 and #2 are okay, then check ignition switch

#1 okay

In the process of jumping the starter, I noticed a broken brown/black wire (18 gauge maybe). It is located near the starter solenoid.

Given its length, there are only so many places it can reach. But try as I may, I cannot locate where it was connected.

BTW, the other end of the wire goes into a wire harness so no idea where it ends up.

Looked at wiring diagram but there was no mention of a brown/black wire on the logical pages I at looked at (i.e., starter connections, etc).

Maybe some pictures will help.

Thoughts?

[1961tbird]

Update: Cleaned up the connection of the starter solenoid/battery and she fired right up. I live on the ocean the salt air play havoc to electrical connections.

So the van runs fine. But still have no idea what that brown/black goes and what it does (?).

[1961tbird]

Opps. I spoke too soon. Put everything together and won't start.

I jumped the starter to battery and nothing. So I guess I'm in the market for a new starter. Funny, I installed this starter only 3 years ago. Quality of parts is certainly eroding.

Any suggestions for a high quality starter? Wasn't the original a Bosch?

[Joshwa]

In the engine bay, I see Brown/Black being use for:

Brake fluid level warning switch; C/3
Horn ground ending up at A1/8, through a 2 pin connector T2N/2
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93 Weekender TDI conversion (AHU)
93 MV TDI conversion (1Z)
Weekender rear cot
Late model cabin air filter on 93
Euro spec bumper install on 93

[67rustavenger]

[1961tbird]

Thanks for the brake and horn wiring possibilities. I'll check.

Unfortunately, no Auto Zone up here in Canada.

Is it typical for a starter to sometimes work then not? It's weird that when I cleaned up the starter solenoid connections it immediately started up then 10 minutes later nothing but lights on my dash and the clicking noise. So I'm back to square 1. Am I overlooking anything?

[Da TOW'D]

I use Corrosion X spray on my electrical connections so they don't look like your starter's connections.
good stuff
Hank
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'57 type 1 Blackberry
'58 SC Ruf
'62 type 3 Notch
'92 Eurovan Willy
'99 Eurovan Winnie
and NUTS

[Saturn]

[WorthaTry]

[1961tbird]

Yes, apparently that Corrisson X is great stuff. Where did you source here in Canada?

[Da TOW'D]

Aircraft Spruce
Branford Ontario
877 795 2278
$15 CDN

other dealers in the states
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'57 type 1 Blackberry
'58 SC Ruf
'62 type 3 Notch
'92 Eurovan Willy
'99 Eurovan Winnie
and NUTS

[1961tbird]

Placed ordered. Thanks. It appears it may help a lot in my salt air