Hall sender help needed.

[hardway]

Duncan, I did not answer your question on how to time a replacement distributor. First I would point the rotor to the mark on the distributor housing by turning the crankshaft to rotate the distributor drive. That sets the motor to TDC firing point for cylinger # 1. The original distributors have an engraved line at TDC cylinder cylinder 1. I do not think that the Jopex distributor does. If there is no mark on the repurposed aftermarket distributor then place a mark directly beneath the # one cylinder terminal of the distributor cap. The one that the cylinder 1 ignition lead connects to. Install the replacement so that the rotor points there. That will get you close.

After that set the timing by the static method. Key on, coil wire close to but not touching ground. Rotate the engine back and forth. When rotating the engine in the normal direction you will come to the point at which the hall effect switch actually switches. If everything else works, you will see a spark then. Rotate the distributor to synchronize the spark generation and the timing mark on the pulley being at the case halves. That will get you real close. You should check it with a timing light after that. But this method will get you out of the back country and home to your timing light.

[DuncanS]

Hardway--Thanks for that input. My current timing light doesn't quite seem to work like most. But I think it will actually be simpler. to use. Only problem is it doesn't work with a moderate breeze.

The holes were drilled using chalk to make a template after driving the center hole. Then a tiny bit of Dremel work to get the ½" ply to sit down on top of the cap. Vaselined the bejesus out of the cap with paper towel plugs in the wire holes. Bondo in the holes and on the bottom, and pushed the ply to the cap. After it cured, I cleaned it up. There was no wiggle before the Bondo, but just to make sure of repeatability of position on the cap.

The arm touches the alternator.

[DuncanS]

The above pics were taken with the spare cap on the existing dizzy. When I get the wiring changes made, I try firing it up with the existing dizzy. If it doesn't fire, then I'll swap out the dizzy using my new timing light. Cost, by the way--zero.

Duncan

[crazyvwvanman]

That should working ok except for the small elephant in the room.

You are assuming the new aftermarket dizzy has exactly the same timing in that position as the stock dizzy.
Maybe it does but how you can you tell?

Perhaps also try a more static timing check with both to see, assuming you get spark with both dizzys.

Mark

[crazyvwvanman]

[DuncanS]

[DanHoug]

i've a disassembled dist on the bench awaiting phenolic washers... the wheel with the Hall windows is pressed on the shaft, maybe welded, but there is no flat to index it. now, realistically, Bosch probably made them all very close in tolerance to align with the slot mark in the rim for initial timing purposes. however, the GP Group dist has no such slot at all and who knows how the Hall windows are oriented. matters not if you time things with a light and not a candle.

the bottom line, a timing light allows one to MEASURE timing. timing that can be replicated from distributor to distributor without assumptions.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[DuncanS]

Dan, I'm not saying timing lights aren't important and good. I'm just wondering about the relationship the wires ultimately must have to the cam and therefore the engine block in any 2.1. I find it hard to believe there would be any differences between cranks, cams and blocks for a 2.1, but I'm not an experienced mechanic and could very easily be wrong. Or barely a mechanic at all. Just a shade tree tinkerer who obviously needs to get a timing light and know how to use it. What is the price range for a decent one?

Not fighting anything here. Just trying to find a possible alternative for the short term to get me to the next step.

Duncan

[DanHoug]

i personally would consider the Summit Racing SUM-G1059 at $85, the MSD 8992 for $225, or for the bottom feeders, Innova advance timing lights starting at $50 and going up. just make sure you get an advance timing light. makes it soooo easy to document what your timing is at and set it where you want. eliminates the 2" tapes and paint dots, but i have those too.

my timing lights are a vintage Craftsman dial back advance light and non-advance Craftsman along with a SUN. the Summit one is a clone of dial back Craftsman and possibly being made by ESI.

a timing light won't tell you squat about how the mechanic setup the relationship of the crank to the cam. it CAN tell you if the mechanic set the distributor gear wrong in relation to the crank so that the body of the dist has to be rotated in an extreme way. but even if the distributor gear is set totally 'wrong', the engine can be timed just fine. it just won't look like the Bentley diagrams with things lining up.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[dobryan]

[DuncanS]

Got it, Dan
Thanks so much. I assumed there were fixed protocols on how the gearing was set up. Because my engine is a rebuild, it could be off. Since it has been fine with the dizzy setting it has, then the new one should work in the same position. Yes?

Advance timing light. How does this one look. It has a tach which may? help with getting the setting at the right RPM? Is that important? The 1962 styling puts me off a bit as if that's what they think is up to date, what's on the inside?

High tomorrow of 26º, so that will be fun. I'll need breaks to come in and warm my hands by the wood stove. The Admiral has said that by Feb 1 the car has to be running or it gets towed to a garage using up precious Trip A allotments and my allowance.

Duncan

[DanHoug]

the ESI will be good. remember not to bang the inductive pickup against anything, they are made of powdered iron and quite fragile. the RPM is handy.

if you've never used one before, be careful.... they freeze motion of the rotating parts like belts, pulleys, fan blades, etc. it's not unheard of for idiots (like myself) to be absorbed in the process, see everything is "stationary" and reach in for something. you will, however, only do that once in your life.
_________________
-dan
60% of what you find on the internet is wrong, including this post.

'87 Westy & '89 Westy both 2.1 4spd

Past projects can be found at--
www.thefixitworkshop.com

[crazyvwvanman]

Hold the phone, I just compared a new JP Group dizzy to a NOS Factory Bosch dizzy.
The TIMING is definitely different.
This is easy to see when you compare the direction the rotor points with respect to the angle of the KEY on the drive end of the dizzy.
The 2 things are clocked slightly differently on the JP Group dizzy.
Essentially this means the rotor slot in one end of the shaft is machined in a different position compared to the drive pin hole location in the other end of the shaft.

In my examples the orientation difference was about half the width of the rotor tip at the cap rim.

This difference is of no importance when setting the timing with a timing light.

Mark

[DuncanS]

Lord, is there no end of monkey wrenches being thrown into my set of gears?

Thanks so much for the tip, Mark. I'll take the three year old BD one out and compare it to the new BD one. If they are different, at least I'll be able to see the difference and pre rotate the dizzy in the general direction so the timing light my son has will at least be somewhere within the ballpark of starters. Since Murphy won't permit both BD dizzies to be the same, that will be the plan.

Duncan

[billpatterson]

[ALIKA T3]

Hi Bill!

The hardest part is to punch the pin out from the bottom where the key drive is.
One side of the pin is punched harder than the other upon close inspection, just punch it from the less mushroomed side.

That's it, then everything comes out the top by pulling. Mind the thrust washers.

Tap the hole like in my picture.

I can also do it if you mail it to the shop. I have a few spare distributors already assembled for customers, so I'm now quite used to it

I even did a couple 1.9's with the late plug style but there's more work involved. Different animal.
_________________
Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget

[billpatterson]

Hi Alika T3

Thanks for the insight. Looking forward to it. It is somewhat academic as I have ordered one from Marcel at VWNOS and I have purchased a good used working dizzy. I will fix the one that came out of the Westy. I am curious and want a good backup; however, the new dizzy should work for decades.

Appreciated
Bill
_________________
Bill Patterson
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
‘87 Westfalia (Named Allons-y French for let’s go!)

[Backtotheeightiesagain]

The bus after the T3, euro van or T4 is hall without wires is still available. You will have to look and decide if useful .
The pin I removed with a worn wire cup from dremels tool kit in a vise.
The other side soft wood protected the distributor. The pin sinking into the wood not lost on floor.
More than two hands useful either way.
Im not accurate with hammer so went for that, pressing it slowly.
Perhaps need a thread on how long no name distributors last, repairs or uses as that is wot we will be dealing with now onwards.