Another headlight wiper question

[Chris-a]

I've searched and read a mess of threads(15?) and still not getting anywhere with what Im finding, so I'll put this question out in a new thread.

***I WILL INSTALL HEADLIGHT RELAYS IMMEDIATELY AFTER RESOLVING SWITCH ISSUES***

Long day yesterday trying to track down why my headlights(low and high) died all of a sudden the other day. Neither work and no intermediate light from switch on the stalk either. Rear parking lights work. Turn signals work. Wipers occasionally work. If the wipers are set to an on position and aren't working sometimes they will kick on when I activate the bright momentarily switch on the left stalk. Clue to ignition switch? I checked every fuse, all good. However previous owner had installed 20 amps into each socket, when I believe 10 amp is specified. -warning/hint possible problems before, or maybe someones 'ill-fated' pre emptive solution when they installed the SA Grille w/ 4 halogen headlights. There is a relay mounted above the ground trees that Im struggling to trace to where it goes, but it may go towards the headlights. I was able to pull the relay and bench test it, and it's functioning. I can't imagine someone installed that aftermarket, just based on the location and lack of access. I'm struggling to get alligator clips onto the terminals to help me trace it.

I checked ground resistance from the 4 fuse legs at the block through the halogen bulbs, and all were 109 ohms, in what I would consider a decent range for cold halogens. I even jumped the ground from the headlights back to a cleaned ground location, and no still no lights. Those reasons lead me to think this is NOT a ground issue. I will pull all the grounds off the trees and clean/replace as needed for preventative future.

Headlight switch has constant power from Red/Yel wire coming from circuit 30.
Blk/Yel coming from ignition switch is nearly zero and not changing with key on/off- Another clue pointing towards a bad ignition switch

However when I jump power from the red/yellow to wht/blk(on the headlight switch) I don't get any headlights, and I think I should??? Am I totally wrong about that expectation??

Also with the headlight switch installed and switched on, I jumped the ignition switch plug from the constant power to energize the BLk/yel. I hear the load limit relay click and the wipers work now, but still no headlights.

I'm not worried about spending the $30 for a new headlight switch and $10 for an ignition switch, but the standard shipping time to me is usually 6-8 days. I'd be fine with waiting if I was confident Im on the right track, I don't like the idea of waiting a week to throw parts at the problem and hope it works.

Thoughts? Ideas?
Thank you.

Mystery to me relay?:

Relative wiring schematics:

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I gotta have nice tools, just look at the cars I drive.

Current: 87 Syncro AHU Tdi Westy'ish?
Previous: 77 Westy, 72 Tin Top Camper, 69 Passenger

[ProvoCyclist]

That relay is the load reduction relay.
Heres a thread about it: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=544968
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Clark
Current: 1986 Tintop GL 2wd, stock 2.1L, manual trans, Savanna Beige Metallic LH1V.
Past: 1985 Sunroof GL, 2wd, Subaru 3.3L, manual trans, resprayed to Diamond Silver L97A

[Chris-a]

[dhaavers]

How come that relay looks just like my (early) AC relay and fusible link?

<shrug>

- Dave
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>

[kamzcab86]

[Chris-a]

[hardway]

If you have no power at the headlight fuses then you have no power at the headlight bulbs. Either work backwards from where there is no power to where there is power. Or work from the power side following the circuit forward to where there is no power.

A test light is an easy way to check for power. A voltmeter works too. Make some fused jumper wires out of in-line fuse holders. Bypass suspected problems with jumpers. Work methodically.

Current flow diagrams have B+ at the top of the page and B- at the bottom of the page.

The headlight circuit is powered directly by terminal X at the ignition switch. Then to the headlight switch. Terminal #30 at the switch is for the optical horn (Flash the headlights) and the running lights. From the headlight switch the power goes to the dimmer switch. Then to the fuse panel. Then through the fuses and out to the lights.

The ignition switch can burn up. The ignition switch connector can burn up and melt. The dimmer switches fail too. Just be methodical and follow the circuit and the current.

[Chris-a]

Quick update for those of you at home keeping score.

I spent several hours tracing power and attempting to jump switches w/o any luck. It made no sense to me as to me why I couldn't get the lights to function with jumper cables over the headlight switch and igntion switch. Frustrated, I ordered a new headlight switch and new ignition switch. My local Napa was able to get the parts in a couple of days. I didn't think it was the headlight switch, but I ordered one just because?? partly just to give me a few days to cool off.

Install new headlight switch, no change.

Pulled the old ignition switch, and notice the plug is slightly burnt up. Well that's probably not great. Looks like it got crimped or crushed. So I disassembled the plug and manually jumped/activated the ignition wires. Check voltage at the fuse block. All four fuses are acting like they are supposed to when low or highs are engaged! Great. Install fuses and activate lights. -no lights. Pull plug off one light and test voltage. All three feeds(low, high and ground) are registering 12v of positive power! wtf? Pulled all the wires from the 4 headlights(SA Grill) found some wonky wiring that had crossed each other and worn through the casing.

I manually separated the wires and lights are working!

Welp that's not good, but I think Ive found my problems-not sure what order my issues came into existence... regardless Ive got a new plug en-route and gathered up the relays I need for the headlights and will rewire the wonky bits if not the entire section. Hopefully button this all back together in a few days when parts arrive..

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I gotta have nice tools, just look at the cars I drive.

Current: 87 Syncro AHU Tdi Westy'ish?
Previous: 77 Westy, 72 Tin Top Camper, 69 Passenger

[4Gears4Tires]

Glad to see you're figuring it out. I was hoping for a steering column based solution though because my Westy's headlights slightly dim when I first turn on the blinkers. I think the switch needs to be taken apart and cleaned or replaced.
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'87 Syncro Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition
'85 Westy Sciuridae Domus Edition

[jlrftype7]

Please remember, you can have a voltage present, get a meter reading, but not have enough current to work a load. The meter needs so little current to get a reading.
This is one way the older Incandescent Test Lights had over a meter, if there wasn't enough current, or too low of current available on a circuit when testing, your bulb barely lit up, clueing you that you had a problem.

Conversely, when taking a Resistance Reading, you can have one or two strands in a wire still making a circuit, get a good ohm reading, but not have a true working circuit for the load required at the end of the wires.
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'68 Westy- my first VW and vehicle/Bus- long gone.- sold it to a traveling Swiss couple....
'67 Type 3 Fastback, my 2nd car- gone
'69 Semi-Auto Stick Shift Beetle-gone
2017 MINI Coopers, our current DDs
‘84 Tin Top - Hilga....Auto

[Chris-a]

New switches and relays installed, wiring quirks resolved and I have functioning lights!

I can't leave well enough alone. I have the SA grill w/ Sylvania sealed 7" halogens and hella inner halogens. I prefer the classic looking lights, but I wanted abit more performance. I decided to order some hella 7" outer lights and led bulbs for those. Maybe Im over thinking it, but Im thinking of changing up how my inner/outers are wired. The inner's are On or off, while the outers have high or low.

Opt 1)Outer low beam, inner on.
Opt 2)outer low, inner off
Opt 3)Outer High, inner on
Opt 4)Outer High, Inner off


It came to me as 1,4. I'm kinda thinking of going 2,3, primarily to not irritate other driver when I have just the low's on. However if I properly angle the lights maybe that's moot.
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I gotta have nice tools, just look at the cars I drive.

Current: 87 Syncro AHU Tdi Westy'ish?
Previous: 77 Westy, 72 Tin Top Camper, 69 Passenger