Rusty 65 SC restoration

[70bus]

"Mine just clears the bumper. I pinch my fingers every now and then."

FWIW, that is the way mine is; I didn't say anything because I assumed it's wrong, and you would provide the 'correct' answer and I'd adjust it!

I'll try to get some measurements today but here's some pics

Lid to bumper is maybe a fat finger or two smaller ones wide. From looking at these pics, I assume my brackets are tipping bumper down towards the front; I seem to rcall stacking washers above and below to get them this good! There's a local VW meetup tonight and I'll try to see what other bumper/lid gaps look like.
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Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams

Raoul the 65 singlecab

Karl the 70 nine-seater

[Kb65single]

70bus

thanks for the pictures they helped.


Driver's side guard was a little more beat up. PO's made a mess out of it. Looks like they tried to adjust it to fit the profile of the bumper but failed. Some typical dents on the face that were easy to pound out.

Welded some small repairs on both sides of the guard and it looked and fit better.

Tried on the towel bar and it didn't fit like the passenger side. Almost seemed like it was too long.

The position of the guards was different. Engine lid opening and taillight opening weren't the same distance from each other.

Measured the difference. Marked the engine lid opening.

The stance of the guards was very different also. Driver's side was straight vertical, and the pass side was slanted in at the top. I compared the front bumper, and those guards were slanted in at the top. Some pictures from the forums show both ways, but never different on the same bumper. 70bus showed them slanted in at the top. I couldn't keep it that way because it would just look weird. (The far away bumper guard is a little difficult to see because it blends in with all the crap behind it. Sorry!)

Getting the two guards symmetrical would require a bit of effort. Choose to slant the top of the guard in first and see if that would improve the position of the towel bar. Graph some metal on both sides of that guard and ground it to match the passenger side.

Unfortunately, moving the guard toward the center of the bus required moving the bumper blade bracket and drilling a new hole in the blade and plugging the old hole. Had to undo what I did to the frame bracket to center the blade in the bus. A pain in the ass but I didn't think I had a choice. Could have shortened the towel bar but that wouldn't cure the non-symmetry. More work than I wanted but ....

After I got done, I had to move the hole slightly on the side of the bumper blade. Looking more and more like a bus from the rear. Next will be the reproduction splash pans, what could go wrong.

[70bus]

Sweet! I agree the slanting-back LOOKS best... no idea if it's the stock stance. Maybe all of the slanted ones are the result of tipped bumpers! I did look around at the other buses at the meetup, and without opening a strangers lid, they looked to range from 'watch yr fingers' to a narrow but pinch-less sweep. Maybe a 1/2" in variation? My bumper tips forward, and I'm sure if I massaged that out I'd have more room for flesh in the gap.

Any ideas why your sides were so different? W/out scrolling back, I can't remember if both sides were replaced; maybe if one is OG the repro was off a smidge? Or do you think the culprit was the bumper and all of its sad history of dings?
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Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams

Raoul the 65 singlecab

Karl the 70 nine-seater

[Kb65single]

[Eric&Barb]

FYI when taking off the front emblem, it is best to push against the posts with a piece of hardwood dowel. That will slide the speed nut clips right off.

Black set of rear bumper brackets are for 1968-71 bus.

Are you going to setup a drain system for the gas door like the bus models do in the engine compartment? Rain always get around that door to rust out the floors inside the trucks.
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In Stereo, Where Available!

[70bus]

E&B make a good suggestion - especially for someone with such welding skill.

I used JBWeld. Misses a few drips, but gets most of the dribbles.

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Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams

Raoul the 65 singlecab

Karl the 70 nine-seater

[Kb65single]

[Eric&Barb]

No worries. Just figured to pass on the emblem info, you just never know if you might come across an old bus nose up in some attic and need that to remove the VW sign. The 1963-67 workshop manual also has that info in the body section.

Ages ago in the 1990s we came across a barn door single cab that this old fellow in very dry eastern Oregon had the local wrecking yard back in the 1970s torch the cab off so he could keep it in his back yard just for the glass in it for spare for his 1958ish bus. Torched off just below the rear window and just below the doors lower hinge across the nose. Of course the local kids back in the day were nice enough to go over to his place to throw racks thru most of the glass.......
Sold all of that to a guy down in south California, who drove a Toyota (?) sedan all the way up to Seattle area where we were at the time and back to that sunny climate. Have always wondered what happened to those parts. Did it complete a single project (pun intended) or many??

Anyway, wish we had seen your project earlier, not at all sure how we missed it. Love the work you are doing!!
The only thing we would warn you is that the green primer from what we have heard over the years is only good for shipping purpose, and should not be used for long term. Have even heard from some folks that surface rust has been found under the primer. Maybe remove green primer that you can reach now already in the truck and remove all on any piece going into it from now on. Then apply a decent primer.
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In Stereo, Where Available!

[Eric&Barb]

As for the gas door water intrusion situation, have yet to do anything with our runner single cab, but it has for the most part been kept under cover and not driven in the rain for many years now. Been thinking of making a "U" shaped gutter (with a bit of a "V" bottom to encourage water and dirt to slide on downward) about 1" tall, and wide enough that someone can run a finger into it to pull out and debris that might get into it.

Thinking of going pretty much the front to rear length of that panel with a 30 to 45 degree slope for the gutter going downward to the rear. Front end of the gutter would not need to be closed off with that steep of incline, and the rear end to funnel into at least a 13mm (1/2") pipe to drop down just in front of the rear wheel well. Weld the gutter to several points of the panel and use a drip rail or body panel seam sealer coating to keep water from getting past the gutter. Probably would need to make the panel side of the gutter higher to allow easy welding and visual of the coating/sealing.

Have also thought about a cover panel that would connect to the gutter and cover as much upward of the whole gas filler area to catch as much of the water spray that gets into there, but be easily removable with 4 to 6 machine screws. First would be to do the gutter and go from there.
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In Stereo, Where Available!

[Eric&Barb]

2022 info on the green primer: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=766718&highlight=klassic+fab
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In Stereo, Where Available!

[70bus]

What year truck, E&B? Does it not already have a gutter like the one in my pic, above? On my truck, it was just a folded U in the neck support, and it looks like VW intended for gas and water to spill over those side openings and into t/c. I drilled a hole, added the copper drain pipe, and made little dams at each end of the U trough to encourage liquids to exit via the pipe. I've only had it in rain twice, so I can't say how well it works for that, but the gas that spills seems to exit properly through tube.

I bet Kb65single could zap that up in an hour and improve upon it. I think just welding tabs covering the U ends and properly welding in a drain tube would resemble the bay setup and be faster.

Kb, it looks like you are almost ready to install running gear and start work on kitting the cab? I mean, you've done nose-to-tail; what other metalwork is left?
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams

Raoul the 65 singlecab

Karl the 70 nine-seater

[Eric&Barb]

[70bus]

Understood. VW was not worried about water as much as saving $5 on that bit.

Kb, while you are making a to-do list before paint... while laying in my t/c replacing the gas sender, I once again boggled at the amount of wasted space back there. I was thinkg a good welder could make a removable panel to protect the tank, yet still allow for installation of some storage containers back there. I saw a steel Army shell case that looked the right size to bolt it to the firewall and put in emergency supplies... cosmoline-dipped crank, rods, p/cs, hell a whole case! Pop off the main divider panel and haul out the spares. I can see you fabbing something with doors and roll-out shelves. :)
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Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams

Raoul the 65 singlecab

Karl the 70 nine-seater

[Kb65single]

[quote="70bus"]Understood. VW was not worried about water as much as saving $5 on that bit.

70bus
Yes, Hans und Franz did a real bad job of designing that part. The original floor in that section had multiple holes drilled in it to drain the water out on both sides. I am assuming that the treasure chest doors don't seal that well and the gas tank door and its surrounding metal is what it is.
I'm leaning toward drilling holes to let the water out and making a foam seal on the gas door to hopefully slow water from entering. Probably a metal pipe like you did. The VW gods will hopefully look kindly down at me for making a decent effort. The bus might get wet, but it won't be a daily driver.

Yes, getting ready to paint underneath and treasure chest area. Then load bed and bulkhead metal is all that's left. Forgot the gates damn! Those will keep me busy for a while.

[Kb65single]

It has been a while (6/14/25). Started on fitting the rear bumper posting date 4/20/25. Wanted to finish posting on that subject." Things" got in the way and then it got to hot and humid to get out there.

At this stage I am just introducing the rear bumper splash guards. All the work that I have done to this point was getting the bumper centered in the bus, only one plane of the xyz 3D location. I really didn't even fool with the guards until now. I bought a NOS set with part # labels on them a long time ago. When I attempted to put them on, I found out that they weren't as advertised. Turned out they were for a baywindow bus not a split. Found that out quickly because of the 13 pages of bumper info that I consumed in the forums. My bad on not checking the #'s but I assumed the seller knew her stuff. It was advertised in the split bus section.

None of the used classified offerings looked inviting, so I entered back into the aftermarket world. It included all of the hardware; bolts, brackets, rubber goods that I didn't have or wouldn't get with the used old stuff. WW supplied the splash guards.

Had the bumper supported by wood blocks and the upright guards and towel bars bolted to the bumper blade. Trying to get the splash pans squeezed past all that stuff was impossible. I quickly gained an appreciation of loosely assembling all the bumper parts, then loosely sliding it under the bus and loosely bolting that to the frame and then gradually tightening them up. Unfortunately, they all have to fit. The splash pans threw a curve into that process. Every part of the mounting points, splash pan to frame bracket, splash pan to bus corner sheet metal and splash pan to bumper bracket near the slash tip was off. I understand now why I see so many pictures of buses without rear bumpers.


Some pictures of the issues.

Side bumper bracket at the slash tip was adjusted all the way up and the slash pan 3/4" away from the bus corner sheet metal.

Couldn't move the blade up because the splash panel bracket that should bolt to the bus corner sheet metal was in the way.

Got frustrated with that so I decided to eliminate some of the variables like the bumper blade. How does the splash pan relate to my distorted bumper brackets. The splash pans bolt to the frame bracket with a small 5mm nut and bolt. They also bolt to the bottom corner sheet metal with the same 5mm nut and bolt so my 3/4" gap wasn't correct.

5mm bolt with nut and washer underneath.

At that point I knew that my frame bumper brackets needed some adjustments. Tried the black set of brackets to see what they would do. Definitely not right.

The white set pointed me in the opposite direction. The splash pan was pointed down at the D-pillar. Needed to find a happy medium because my thinking was that the splash pan should be parallel with the load bed/ engine lid hinge carrier.

So, what are the correct angles to bend the bumper brackets. I think that there are too many variables to have a set number for a 60+ year old vehicle that has been restored. The unknown damage done to the brackets and bumper blade make it a crap shoot. My stick figure drawing of a rear bumper bracket.

B bolts to the splash pan
D bolts to the frame
A bolts to the bumper blade
AB, BC, and CD angles can be changed by cutting and welding if needed.

Cutting the brackets far enough, but not all the way is what I did to make the changes I needed. A lot of trial and error and frustration but it finally came together. Tack welding the changes and trying them in comes highly recommended. If you change one angle the other two will need adjustment. Next post will show some of the changes.

[BarryL]

Right where B goes under there is supposed to be a rubber bumper. You can kinda see it here on the bottom off the body corner.

[70bus]

Do you mean the ribbed rectangle 231707666
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=213707666

or the edge rubber, 211707397B
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=211707397B

I don't think there are any models that have more than those but always good at eating crow. If you mean something else, perhaps someone stuck something there to prevent rattles?

FWIW I can try and get pics of my splash pans ths evening.
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams

Raoul the 65 singlecab

Karl the 70 nine-seater

[Eric&Barb]

[70bus]

As I've said, I'm no expert - but is that plug stuck in the hole meant to drain the battery tray area and body lip (and other side drain as well)? There is no rubber plug like that in any 63-67 VW parts manual I've looked at. Doesn't mean there isn't one in one I HAVEN'T looked at, but I do not think it goes there.
_________________
Craig K
70 Neunsitzer
65 Pritschenwagen
"If Von Dutch was alive, he'd walk in there with a pistol and shoot these people." - Robert Williams

Raoul the 65 singlecab

Karl the 70 nine-seater

[Kb65single]

BarryL, 70bus, Barb&Eric

Here is a real picture of a bumper bracket and not a stick figure. These are the angles (AB, BC,and CD) that need to be correct for the bumper to sit right.

There is a rubber pad inserted in the bus corner sheet metal about 6 inches from the bumper bracket. Not sure why it's there it just is.

Picture of the rectangular rubber pad that is sandwiched between the bumper bracket and the splash pan. The rubber pad is smooth on one side and has ribs on the other side, not sure which side is up or down.