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Dave24
Samba Hack Purist
Joined: April 14, 2004
Posts: 7442
Location: Hablamos Ingles, So. Cal.
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 Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| chazwood wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| Most people drive with them only partially open. |
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One rock vs. 100 pieces of glass. Do the math. |
 Exactly. |
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EverettB 
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 71820
Location: Phoenix 602
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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I never said it was unsafe. My point was that European vendors sell safaris with tempered glass because that is their standard. They sell RHD instead of LHD cars in the UK too, because that is the standard there.
Glass can crack for various reasons.
I have seen cracks in every location on a Bus.
Since someone else stated that laminated glass for windshields is the law, it sounds like your glass shop has opened themselves up to a potential lawsuit by selling tempered glass for use in windshields.
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chazwood
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2006
Posts: 678
Location: The last word in edgewise
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| I never said it was unsafe. |
I thought that was the whole argument.
Using tempered glass in windshields in your state may be illegal. Isn't everything in California illegal?
How many years has it been since your big brother thought you were smart enough to buy and shoot off fireworks? (as we here in this part of the country light up the 4th of July night  ) Happy fourth!!!! |
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busded
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2004
Posts: 497
Location: 209, CA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| chazwood wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| I never said it was unsafe. |
Isn't everything in California illegal? |
I don't think Everett is in CA 
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12653
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| chazwood wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| I never said it was unsafe. |
I thought that was the whole argument.
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No it wasn't.
You said the that safaris were designed for tempered glass. I pointed out that VW installed laminated or tempered depending on what specs the bus needed to have for the sale destination.. You never seemed to notice that since VW did use laminated glass in og safaris, it must have been part of their design.
I don't think I said anything about safe one way or another.
Chaz, maybe Big Brother really isn't watching you.
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 71820
Location: Phoenix 602
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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| chazwood wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| I never said it was unsafe. |
I thought that was the whole argument. |
No, I believe the argument stemmed from your statement:
| chazwood wrote: |
You need the kind of glass VW designed to go in their safari's....
tempered. |
A couple people mentioned that tempered glass may cause additional injuries in an accident. Based on indirect experience, this is true.
| chazwood wrote: |
| Using tempered glass in windshields in your state may be illegal. |
Previously in this thread, it was stated this is a US regulation.
If your glass is cracking while your Bus is just sitting, something else is wrong other than the glass type. Otherwise why aren't everyone's side pop-out windows cracking at random? It's a very similar design to the safari windows.
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chazwood
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2006
Posts: 678
Location: The last word in edgewise
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| Otherwise why aren't everyone's side pop-out windows cracking at random? It's a very similar design to the safari windows. |
Uuuhhh.... When I open my pop outs and drive down the road I don't see them vibrating like a tuning fork as the safaris do.
All that vibrating is what weakens the glass.
I know that VW used laminated glass in the USA buses, but laminated glass is what cracks so bad.... so........ I was suggesting that if you have trouble with yours cracking all the time...... try Tempered. |
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shawn rogers
Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2006
Posts: 94
Location: Northside GA
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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Solution: Use tempered glass, BUT on the inside apply clear mylar so if you do get your glass popped you wont get hit with shards. We used clear mylar as tearoffs on the race cars.
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chazwood
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2006
Posts: 678
Location: The last word in edgewise
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| Otherwise why aren't everyone's side pop-out windows cracking at random? It's a very similar design to the safari windows. |
BTW.... are your pop outs tempered glass?...mine are.
Maybe that's why they don't break. Tempered glass. Tough stuff. Ten times stronger than regular. So strong, they make glasses out of the stuff.
Last edited by chazwood on Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:41 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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chazwood
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2006
Posts: 678
Location: The last word in edgewise
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| shawn rogers wrote: |
| Solution: Use tempered glass, BUT on the inside apply clear mylar so if you do get your glass popped you wont get hit with shards. We used clear mylar as tearoffs on the race cars. |
Not a bad idea. If you are nervous... of course, I should think you would be a lot more nervous if your safaris were open.
And if you can get supplies. I wouldn't know where to start.
But remember... I don't have a problem with tempered glass. I do have a problem with a cracked safari and replacing the glass every time I take a drive. |
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EverettB
Administrator
Joined: April 11, 2000
Posts: 71820
Location: Phoenix 602
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 8:56 pm Post subject: |
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| chazwood wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| Otherwise why aren't everyone's side pop-out windows cracking at random? It's a very similar design to the safari windows. |
BTW.... are your pop outs tempered glass?...mine are.
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Sigla glass. Sigla = laminated.
Some facts for people:
Tempered glass is 4-6x as tough.
Tempered glass is also considered safety glass. (To generalize)
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Last edited by EverettB on Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dave24
Samba Hack Purist
Joined: April 14, 2004
Posts: 7442
Location: Hablamos Ingles, So. Cal.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave24 wrote: |
| Or if you insist on tempered, coat it with 2 mil. safety film (clear). |
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12653
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| Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| EverettB wrote: |
| chazwood wrote: |
| EverettB wrote: |
| Otherwise why aren't everyone's side pop-out windows cracking at random? It's a very similar design to the safari windows. |
BTW.... are your pop outs tempered glass?...mine are.
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Sigla glass. Sigla = laminated. |
The pop outs in my '61 are laminated (sigla) glass and have not cracked during driving or parking since I got the bus.
Funnily enough, the laminated safaris glass has not cracked from either sitting or driving since I installed them ('96?) I have even taken this bus on road trips!
This makes me think that there is something to this idea:
| EverettB wrote: |
If your glass is cracking while your Bus is just sitting, something else is wrong other than the glass type |
Chazwood: you still haven't replied to the fact that VW did actually use laminated glass in safaris, contrary to what you said:
| chazwood wrote: |
You need the kind of glass VW designed to go in their safari's....
tempered.
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chazwood
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Joined: February 11, 2006
Posts: 678
Location: The last word in edgewise
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:50 am Post subject: |
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| chazwood wrote: |
I know that VW used laminated glass in the USA buses, .......... |
Well Clara that makes me feel better....yours didn't crack? Great. Congratulations. Consider yourself lucky.
Now .....What do we do about the rest of us that have cracking safaris? Ignore them, cuz yours didn't crack?
VW designed their safaris to use tempered glass. Which they used. What is the problem? They were forced to put in laminated glass in order to comply with US regulations. Period. Or maybe you think they enjoyed using two different kinds of glass in the manufacturing process. You think they enjoyed that right? "Hey Boris , (insert German translation)...That 21 going to America, did you forget to use laminated in those safaris again ? Dunekuff!!! you know those Americans freak when they think about using what the rest of the world uses. You put in tempered? Well you can change them out on your lunch hour, buddy...And next time pay attention."
They used two different kinds of glass just to make it interesting?????Keep those workers on their toes? Right? No, wait ...I've got it. They used Tempered glass for every European safari because laminated was safer.... and they don't like safe. "Give us the dangerous stuff"
No....I've got it...they purposefully used two different kinds of glass for the same thing because it made too much sense to just use laminated for everybody. (Or maybe they tried laminated.... and said... "this stuff sucks in safaris"... "those Americans have more money than brains so ship them their laminated and give the rest of us something that will last more than a day".)
more likely. |
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12653
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| Chazwood wrote: |
| VW designed their safaris to use tempered glass. Which they used. What is the problem? They were forced to put in laminated glass in order to comply with US regulations. Period |
No, VW did not design the safaris for tempered glass. They designed it for either kind. VW was using sigla /laminated windshelds for certain spec buses before they started the 55-67 bus production. They knew they would sell the buses with safaris to countries (including but not just the US) that required laminated glass. It's like they made buses with diff blinky turn signals or semaphores for different spec. Or used different taillights. And some other things. Did the laminated requirement go back to the 30s? I know that early on VW was very interested in selling a large amount of cars to the US market, they would have jumped through the regulatory hoops, including glass.
So why do you keep saying they aren't designed for it? I don't think I'm lucky in my glass not cracked (cept maybe the lack of rocks, which can happen to any windsheild safari or regular). My bus is factory safari'ed with it's og frames. What I have heard is people have problems with the repros glass cracking. That problem is not with parts VW designed, but with parts people copying them designed. Now I wonder how the repro pop-out frames work with sigla glass.
I don't have an opinion about what glass you use. If you feel you have to use tempered glass to compensate for your flexing repro frames, go ahead.
That some repro frames may cause laminated glass to crack has nothing to do with what VW designed.
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chazwood
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Joined: February 11, 2006
Posts: 678
Location: The last word in edgewise
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 10:01 am Post subject: |
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Your missing the point of this whole thread. Did VW design any safari to be used with tempered Glass???? Yes? Great! (Don't lose me now...yes they also used laminated in the same frames....) So, if they did indeed design them to use tempered glass are they safe with tempered glass?
I am I crazy... or is there a OG set of safaris for sale right now in the classified with cracked laminated glass. No... according to you this cannot happen...they have cracked glass ....must be repros.
Someone let that seller know his frames are repros. Tell him OG frames don't let your laminated glass crack.. so he must be mistaken. Better lower that price.
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Clara
Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003
Posts: 12653
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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sigh.
This thread did not start with any questions about safety. I did not address any either.
Please find where I said
| Quote: |
| OG frames don't let your laminated glass crack.. |
I did say they don't make it crack, which unfortunately seems to happen with some repro frames. That was actually the issue that started the thread, FWIW.
....
| Chazwood wrote: |
| I am I crazy |
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chazwood
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Joined: February 11, 2006
Posts: 678
Location: The last word in edgewise
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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So we must quibble about "let" instead if "cause" .....I mean.... whatever.
In your last post it sounded like you were sayingthat the cracking was caused by repro frames....that's not what you were saying?
This thread has had so many post deleted it doesn't even make sense anymore.
You came in late on the discussion Clara (after everything was deleted)where the main point was the safety of tempered glass. I don't know what you said or didn't say and I'm not going to re-read this butchered thread to find out what survived the deletes.
All I'm saying is if your safaris crack... try tempered. End of story. Have a good day.
Last edited by chazwood on Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:20 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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mynameismud
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Joined: October 23, 2002
Posts: 5937
Location: Middle of a corn field
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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so- now refresh my memory (because after mulitple pages I lost track). do i get laminated glass for my OG frames or tempered- since they didn't come with any, i am nervous about putting the wrong type installed.
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chazwood
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Posts: 678
Location: The last word in edgewise
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| Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Use laminated ...It's "safer" and easier to get. |
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