are they THAT bad?

[jeggers]

im looking at this 86 vanagon

nice paint
nice interior
120k miles
had the heads done a while back
overall its a pretty nice bus


i called a local shop to find out how much to get it checked out and the guy goes off on me

"dont buy it, theyre all junk from 84-91"
"get a girlfriend, youd have less headaches"
"even if someone gave me one, i wouldnt take it"


whats the deal here, its seems like a solid van

and the price is right

is this guy nuts, or should i look into this bus

im thinking of taking it my buddys shop to get looked at, at least he wont beat me up over it

[Deaffy]

Yeah, those blowhard mechanics that dismiss cars right off the bat usually are compensating for the fact they'd be totally clueless as to how to repair or inspect them, anyway. Good thing you know that now, so he can be avoided in the future. And, tell a few friends.

But the Vanagons- any of them- are special machines. They are not maintenance free, and they have their quirks.

Better to study up on them via the resources available on the web, and you'll see there is a dedicated community to these vehicles. As you'll see elsewhere in this message forum, there are places that will give you checklists and hints on what to look for and to be aware.

Good luck, let us know how it goes!

[crukab]

Sounds like the guy was a air cooled fan, not water cooled.
They can be pricey to fix, my new engine in my 86 Vanagon Crew cab was 4,000$ installed. They are really good rigs, you just can't expect them to be as cheap to run as a splitty or bay window.
_________________
Tom

My Pops:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=604100&highlight=
I know you will always be with me, rest in peace with no more pain. 8/13/14.....

In the yard right now:
'51 Dodge 5 window truck
'65 Bug
'66 Singlecab
'82 Rabbit Truck Diesel from CALI
'86 Doublecab W/T
'91 Vanagon carat/wolfsbrg.Tiico
'88 Dodge Ram pickup
'11 Jetta Wagon

[earthmuffin]

I wouldn't hesitate to buy another one. When I compare operating costs, including initial investment, of the vanagon as opposed to a new vehicle, I come out way ahead. The more people that don't like them the better, then it is easier to find a good used one.

[jeggers]

im taking it on tuesday to get the compression and coolant system checked

if they check out im buying it

[[email protected]]

You didn't say where you are from. If you are from somewhere where it is good and cold, you can have a great test for the heads. If it is 20°F or colder (0 or below is really good) and the van has been setting un-run for a couple of days, check the bottom of the engine where the tin bolts to the case. If there is one or two drops of green and no puddle on the ground, the heads will probebly need to be done within a year, each winter they leak more. If there is a puddle on the ground, the heads will need to be done real soon. No drops, cool!
'86 was the year that they switched to the 2.1 engine and that was the better engine by far. Note that there are a few '86 only engine parts, everything became standard for '87 - '91.
_________________
'65 standard bus
'87 Vanagon Westfalia

[Tram]

You can't beat a good Vanagon. You'll get a more honest opinion from a tech that actually LIKES Vanagons. Such a guy will be able to tell a turd from a gem. High failure items are heads (already been done), air flow meters, ("Mystery Miss") and voltage stabilisers (intermittent gage inop). Ignition switches (the electrical part) go bad and cause all sorts of freaky problems. The rear heater cores (under the back seat) leak. The heater control cables in the dash break (Boy are THOSE a blast to replace!!) If you don't sweat the little stuff, it's almost ALL little stuff, with the exception of airflows and heads. I regularly see them in my shop with 200, 000+ miles. They quit making Vanagons 13 model years ago- yet, you still see MORE Vanagons than Eurovans. PLUS, you get a LITTLE more power, REAL heat and REAL AC! PLUS- you CAN repair the heads!!!

[earthmuffin]

Did I mention that I really like my Vanagon ?
For all you people that have them and don't like them, You can give them to me !!!!! Just PM me and we can work out the details.

[Cam]

[Bob D.]

I was looking seriously for an '87+ Vanagon a few months ago, did tons of research, looked at several, and the more I looked the more I liked. The ONLY reason I didn't buy one was that my wife cashed a chip with me (she tolerates several "unusual" cars I own, and wanted one "normal" car that wouldn't be the subject of conversation everywhere she went; around here Vanagons are rare as hen's teeth.)

I feel like Vanagons exist in some alternate economic universe where the last zero in the purchase price is always missing. Sure the head problem can be expensive, but when you buy a great 7-passenger vehicle for two grand, who cares? You can buy a good Vanagon, proactively fix every likely problem area and still have less invested than you would in a crummy, still-depreciating American minivan.

Just my $.02....
_________________
1978 7-Passenger, 37K miles
Proud Member #1, SBS (Stock Bus Society)

*Enjoy and appreciate your good health*

We used to play for silver
Now we play for life

[1979westie]

Hey Bob,
just curious but what are some of your other "odd" cars you own? Love to know.
Eric
_________________
Your car may do 0-60 in under 5 seconds, but can it sleep 4 and cook a meal?

1979 Deluxe Campmobile (quickly rusting away)
33K miles when bought, now at 61K
Proud Member #2 SBS (Stock Bus Society)

[sbclayton]

I really like Vanagons, too! I'll eventually sell my Dodge diesel pickup, but my Vanagon will just get restored little by little (maybe even including a nice engine from Boston Bob!?).

And when Cam and earthmuffin get their fill of Vanagons (not likely to happen!), add me to the "donate" list! A guy can never have too many friends or too many Volkswagens!

Tram - you mentioned the airflow meter "Mystery Miss". My '91 Carat had this BIG time since new. The VW stealer washed his hands of the problem (I was a Vanagon newbie), but the problem turned out to be dirty tracks where the wiper arm of the airdoor made its sliding contact inside the airflow meter housing. I lived with the problem for a while - I just jazzed the throttle a few times in Neutral and the problem disappeared for a hundred miles or so.

VW had a factory "fix" - a short plugin harness that had a bridge resistor inside it - when the dirty tracks caused signal loss, the bridge resistor provided a "limp home" reading to the ECU so the engine never went wonky.

Got no idea what the fix number was. Anyone else know? If you've got one, have you ever pulled it apart to do a wiring diagram, or will I have to bite the bullet and take mine apart for posting here?

Steve

[Bob D.]

Eric, several 914s (all in bright jellybean hues), an orange Beetle vert, an old but fast barely-street-legal BMW and a multi-spoilered, flared Carerra are among my recent cars--not to mention my lime green Bay! At this point my wife craves nothing more in the garage than a beige minivan like all the other suburban Moms...

Steve, maybe this will help. I cloned all this from a wonderful website for which I will give attribution when I can find it, or I'm sure somebody else will know.

"VW Factory Air Flow Meter Service Harness

Technical Bulletin Group: 24 Number: 92-01 Date: February 29, 1992 Subject: Vanagon Intermittent Misfire Model(s): All Vanagon Digifant Fuel Injection Engines CONDITION After driving for 1/2 to 2 hours at a constant speed, vehicle experiences lack of power, cuts-out or stalls, often accompanied by bucking or jerking of the vehicle. In ALL cases, the vehicle will restart immediately. This symptom may not re-occur for several weeks/months. Inspection by the dealer results in nothing conclusive. Some air-flow meters may experience a vibration resonance of the metering potentiometer wiper during extended constant driving. This resonance causes the air-flow meter to supply an intermittent signal to the Digifant ECU. The ECU will then default to a "no-load" condition and reduce the injection time. SERVICE Harness, Part No. 025 906 302, is available to resolve this condition. * remove electrical connector from air flow sensor (see Figure 24-174) * install converter assembly, Part No. 025 906 302, between harness and air flow sensor NOTE If customer complaints persist after performing the above repair, contact your Zone Product Support Specialist (TSM in Canada)

Technical Bulletin Group: 24 Number: 92-02 Date: April 30, 1992 Subject: Vanagon Drivability Complaints Model(s): All Water Cooled Engine Vanagons SUPERCEDES TECHNICAL BULLETIN 24-92-01 (February 29, 1992) CONDITION After driving for an extended period of time at a constant speed, the vehicle may, on occasion, experience a deterioration of performance which may be accompanied by a hesitation or surging. In many cases, after turning off the engine and subsequent re-start or without having taken any action, the symptoms disappear. These symptoms may not recur for several weeks or months. SERVICE To resolve this condition, wire harness Part No. 025 906 302, should be installed. This harness provides improved signal voltage stabilization. * remove electrical connector from air flow sensor * install wire harness, Part No. 025 906 302, between main harness connection and air flow sensor connection.

Some people report success with a less costly solution. Solder a 15 to 25 volt tantalum capacitor between terminals 2 and 4 of your AFM. The capacitor can be installed inside the AFM or at the AFM connector on the outside. Peel back the rubber boot covering the connector to gain access to the terminals. The positive terminal of the capacitor is soldered to terminal 2, negative to 4.
It looks like the VW solution is an active device. The chip appears to be a Phillips low voltage op-amp
see http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/pip/SA5230.html"

Below is a picture of a VW 025 906 302 factory service harness to address the so-called "Vanagon Syndrome"

_________________
1978 7-Passenger, 37K miles
Proud Member #1, SBS (Stock Bus Society)

*Enjoy and appreciate your good health*

We used to play for silver
Now we play for life

[sbclayton]

A_HA!

THANKS for the info! It's exactly what I've been trying to find! I just re-cloned it to my helpfile.

That last part makes me a little nervous - I came up with a capacitor fix for Dodge's infamous Throttle Position Sensor - a $250 part which crashes frequently, and is also a potentiometer device.

What makes me a little nervous is that too large a capacitor will dial in response delay to driver input, as well as providing the signal filtering for which it is intended. Any idea what capacitor values are being used? For example, I use a 50 microFarad 35VDC capacitor on my Dodge - 50uF value.

Steve

[Stanagon]

Bob D.,

Two years ago I 'caved in' and let my wife get a '96 Plymouth Grand Voyager. It was the best thing I ever did for her. Now she can just get in and drive without a care in the world. She blends right in with all the other surburban moms and is happy to have the extra space of the "Grand". It also keeps her away from my V-dubs and keeps the peace.

I've currently got an '81 Westy, '65 Panel, and a '95 Passat wagon (daily driver). She's never driven the '65 and hasn't driven the '81 since the clutch blew out on her and the kids one day a few years back. I don't mind, although I'd like her to try driving the '65 once, just for the fun of it:) About the only time I drive the Plymouth van is for wintertime dump trips when the vintage iron is tucked away safe and salt-free.

We got the Plymouth with about 86k on it and she's put about 15k on it in two years. Mostly short trips. We've had the brakes done, tranny fluid/filter replaced, new front struts and recently I put in a new battery. I find it to be a pretty easy car to work on and it's built pretty well. Plus we put a tow hitch on and I recently got a bus towbar that I'm itchin' to try out with it..., can you say more future projects:) I've never taken it to a dealer, the more major stuff gets done at a local garage that does good work for reasonable prices. I'm confident we could get this van serviced just about anywhere. I can only think of one local garage that I would trust with my Vanagon or '65 bus, and it's NOT a VW dealer. Fortunately these rarely need anything I can't do myself.

I guess what I'm saying is don't be afraid of that "minivan" thing your wife has. It might be in your best interest.

[Bob D.]

Stan, excellent point and very well said. I should have made my post more clear--I DID buy that beige minivan (well, white actually, but you get the idea) and, given the circumstances, it was definitely the right choice.

Still want a Vanagon one of these days though....
_________________
1978 7-Passenger, 37K miles
Proud Member #1, SBS (Stock Bus Society)

*Enjoy and appreciate your good health*

We used to play for silver
Now we play for life

[jeggers]

ah i just got home with my new 86

i love it.

it needs a bath, bad

has anyone ever seen a camper set up where the kitchenette is behind the passenger seat?

mine is, but its not hooked up, i think maybe someone shoved it back there for the cabinet space

my speedo cable wasnt hooked up, it looks like maybe the plastic clip is worn out, im waiting to drive it again (in a few minutes) to see if its working now, i pushed it back on, i guess if it works ill get a cable

it smokes a bunch when its cold (blue-ish), and a small amount when i let off the clutch, im guessing its burning a little oil

but for $750 im not gonna worry too much about it just yet

maybe when i drive it some (its been sitting for 6 months) itll blow out all of the crap and knock off the smoking bit.

wooohoooo im excited

it looks like maybe the temp gauge is working off and on, maybe a loose connection?