Do I need to upgrade to 15" tires? ("yawn" ;)

[Vanagon Nut]

Hi all.

I hesitate to ask about tire's but....

I've learned there are several reasons one Vanagon might be subject to cross winds *more* than another Vanagon. Steering components, shocks, tires etc. But, I'm curious about how much tires help resist crosswinds. I have HD Bilstein shocks (near new) and steering components are ok AFAIK.

I've spent so much on the conversion, and am hard pressed to buy 15" rims. But for sure, I gotta replace the Nexen (!) LT 14" tires.

Which helps resist crosswinds more? A proper 15" tire with a shorter (correct term?) sidewall or a proper 14" tire? Possibly one with a stiffer sidewall.

Any advice based upon direct comparisons between a proper 14" tire and a 15" tire, is appreciated. And any reccomends on an all season 14" tire w/stiff sidewall, somewhat narrow (no PS on this Van), and decent in rain/snow are appreciated.

My reasons for possibly keeping 14" tires. More commonly available (?), no mods to clamshell, easier to get spare rims (for snows) no (possibly) messing with gear rations, or speedo.

Thanks much, and sorry for the long post!

Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Onion]

Just one simple anecdote... $.02 worth to add to all the other opinions out there.

I was personally very dubious and particularly resistant to spending $$$ on new 15" wheels, but I needed 4 new tires at once, so I decided to bite the bullet. I got the steel rims from Van-Cafe and a set of Michelin Agilis tires (which I have heard are not great in snow - but haven't tried.)

I am extremely glad that I made the change. The feeling of increased stability at highway speeds is distinctly noticeable. The van feels much safer and more relaxing to drive.

I believe that I previously had hankook LT tires on my 14" wheels. Maybe with better 14" tires I could have achieved some of the same, but all of the reviews out there convinced me to go with 15" wheels and it was a great decision for me.

Good luck with your decision. I hope that whatever you choose makes you happy
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'85 Vanagon Adventurewagen

[JoshG]

I run 14" Nokian snows durng the winter and 16" Nokian all seasons the rest of the year (215/65). Both are above the required load rating. The 16" are far superior on the highway. The van tracks better and has an all around more solid feel to it. The wider, lower profile tires do make a noticeble difference. The cost factor however, is not insignificant.

[Vanagon Nut]

This is what I'm looking for. Findings based upon *only* upgrading from 14" to 15" wheels/tires. I appreciate the input.

So far it seems that this upgrade will be an improvement when compared to proper load rated 14" tires. (of course better 14's would be an improvement over the Nexens I currently have on!

And, of course more of these findings are most welcome!

I too was thinking of the Vancafe 15's. And look! They're on sale!

http://www.van-cafe.com/vanagon_parts.jsp?pa=p&p=787678385



Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[Onion]

...nice... I think I paid $89 each.

If you do go that route, here is my experience:

I think the lugs on those are 17mm, and the 14"s I had were 19mm - so you need a different lug wrench.

Another thing I ran into was the bolts sticking out of the drums on the rear wheel, which interfere with the 15" rims. I used spacers to get the wheels flush, but apparently you can just remove the bolts(?)

Also, I went with a full size 15" spare, and it did not fit in the stock pan on my '85 vanagon. I ordered the oversize spare carrier too now, but I think you might be able to stick with the pan if you remove those funny braces that route above the tire, and just use bolts to hold up the pan. But you would need to do something to protect your coolant hoses from rubbing.

Good luck.
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'85 Vanagon Adventurewagen

[Vanagon Nut]

Thanks for the tips Onion.

I would have to have a close look at the front coolant hoses. I used FLAPS equivalent hoses in converting my form air cooled to Jetta power, so, I'm not sure if they would bet in the way of a 15" tire.


Neil.

[j_dirge]

I am planning on using 15" wheels in the future, too.
But the primary reason to allow installation of bigger brakes.

I am dubious of the enhanced performance of 15" wheels and tires over 14s.. no doubt there may be a tad more stability in a shorter sidewall.

But if you are installing tires big enough to require regearing on a 15" wheel then you're gonna run into the same tall sidewall issue as you currently have with the 14s.. so the usual solution is to use a lower load rated lower sidewall tire which gets you what overall? A nicer looking wheel is pretty much it.

Seriously. How much more perfomance and under what conditions are you looking?

I've driven the bay window, an early aircooled vanagon, and now an 89 Westy.. the single biggest factor in roadhandling is speed.

The current van (the 89) drives remarkably well now that I have a new steering rack installed (removed a great deal of slop in the steering) and I have newish 185r14s on the front with a recent alignment.. I leave them inflated lower in the city and when I go HWY on a trip I inflate to just under max.
It gets less fun when I try and drive faster than 60ish, though.
. but the engine is working too hard at speeds over 60 anyway.. solution? Slow down.

Crosswinds suck no matter what.. and even GoWesty admits that new wheel and tires do very little to improve handling in gusty crosswinds.

15s look nice.. so do 16s.. I like them for that.
But I'm not to keen on the looks of any bigger. I leave that to the yung-uns an their fashion.

[rockfish]

I have the GW 16" wheels and Michelin Hydros. I also had GW install Bilstein shocks. And for safety, I have installed the Van Cafe big brake kit.

When you combine the larger wheels with the appropriate shocks, you will definitely feel the improved difference in terms of the effects of cross-winds and/or tractor-trailers.

Unfortunately none of the above will solve the effect of head-winds!!!
_________________
89 Westy
GW 2.5 5-speed trans

"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts."
- John Wooden

[dr. no]

FWIW, Properly stiff 14' tires do make a huge difference in the handling. I had the same problems with crosswinds and replaced most replaceable suspension parts one piece at a time till I put on Continental Vanco 8s--that made a bigger difference than everything else.
_________________
Scott
http://lungehphoto.com

'83.5 Westy s/p 1.6td JX and 4sp DK transplant
'09 Jetta SportWagen TDI
'06 MB Sprinter
'86 Iltis
'89 Isuzu Trooper


PAST VWs:
'82 NA diesel Vanagon
'86 7-passenger Vanagon
'77 Bay
'71 Bay
'74 Things (2)
'69 Karmann Ghia (the only one I miss--in nice weather, anyway...)
'91 Fox

[ChesterKV]

Hey Dude,

Another way to look at this is to ask, "Does anyone regret buying larger wheels and tires?"

I upgraded to South Africa 15-inch steel wheels with Michelin Agilis tires and LOVED IT.


- Chester
_________________
1984 Wolfsburg 7-passenger stock sunroof
1992 Subaru Legacy EJ22 boxer motor installed.... van is now sold.... currently playing with a 1987 Toyota MR2 with 1.6 liter twin-cam motor. Better than the Subaru boxers....... I'm impressed. Well, okay, in an "apples and oranges" kind of way.

[Crughy]

Simple physics: for a same wheel diameter, the more height of rubber, the less stable it will be (if both tire have reinforced sidewalls). So the higher the sidewall, the less stable it will be.

The compromise is a harder ride with a smaller sidewall (and hence bigger mag).

I went to 16' for that reason.

JP

[kevinbassplayer]

I've got the Van-cafe 15" Mercedes clones with Mich Hydro-edge tires and Bilsteins, WOW what a difference this made from stock 14" and crappy blown out shocks, once you make the change you'll wonder why you even questioned it, better cornering, handling, and cross wind ride

[sc-surfer]

I'm with Chester!!!

While I could spend all day talking about how much better the 15s are, I've NEVER heard anyone say 'gee, I wish I still had my 14s'

Well put!
_________________
'89 Syncro Westy
Catalog of Vans at SDM 2010
Westfalia, Syncro & Tristar Reproduction decals here.
* * * Coming Soon: Washable seat covers for westy bench seat...keep the pets off the upholstery! * * *

[dr. no]

How about "gee, I wish I still had that $600". How much is it worth? Is it that much better? Is the difference between 14" and 15" new, reinforced sidewalls that much? I just want to know from someone who's compared new to new on the same vehicle without changing anything else. (Not "my new bigger stiffer tires are SO much better that my small worn-out passenger tires before I changed the shocks")
_________________
Scott
http://lungehphoto.com

'83.5 Westy s/p 1.6td JX and 4sp DK transplant
'09 Jetta SportWagen TDI
'06 MB Sprinter
'86 Iltis
'89 Isuzu Trooper


PAST VWs:
'82 NA diesel Vanagon
'86 7-passenger Vanagon
'77 Bay
'71 Bay
'74 Things (2)
'69 Karmann Ghia (the only one I miss--in nice weather, anyway...)
'91 Fox

[Vanagon Nut]

[j_dirge]

There are several LT14s avaialble.. but you can't find nifty looking psuedo-offroad tires easily.

And this is what it really comes down to... Its gonna cost $1000 or more to do 15s and new tires properly.. or you will be doing a fair amount of work on used 15s (See Loogy's thread)
It is not an inexpensive upgrade.

I think you're hitting the nail square on the head.. Does 1/2" of wheel radius make that big a difference?.
I just don't beleive it does.. not when you factor in ALL the other variables.
New rubber, new shocks, serviced and new steering components, swaybars, bearings, etc.
Arguably lowering the spring height wil accomplish much the same thing for handling improvement.. but that's not going to be cheap either.. and then you lose ground clearance.
But by the time you tackle ALL that you have 3 or 4k into the van.

There are some really impressive setups on this site.. some are racing grade.. but you have to do decide whats important to you.

I faced your exact situation about 1.5-2 yrs ago but my front tires were getting pretty bad (Bridgestone Duellers which seem to wear VERY fast upfront on these vans). And I decided I did not want to spend $1,000+ dollars.. not just yet. I went and bought Capitol 14 inch tires with the proper load rating. All up, with realignment, cost $200 or so.. And I'm good for another 5 yrs plus while I decide which wheels I want and the brakes and the shocks.. well.. you get the idea.
I simply decided the benefit was not worth $800+ and it wasn't worth rushing in to... not when I still had so many other decisions to still make.

[Rodknock]

Here's a fairly good apples to apples story for you. I changed out my stock shocks (all 4) to Bilsteins HD. My old stock shocks were working fine with about 50,000 miles on them. Stock wheels and Mich. tires properly rated, all other suspension parts in great shape. The difference? You have to be really paying attention to notice. The Westy does not feel like it is going to explode when hitting a pothole, smoother now. It handles crosswinds better. But, you have to be Westy-anal to notice it. Probably should have worn out my stock shocks first, and that's what I am doing now with two sets 14" tires (winter/summer) to wear out. I drove a Westy with 15" wheels recently and the handling was slightly better than mine, but it was not huge.

[riceye]

Hey Neil,

I was in the same quandry last spring when I needed new tires. I bit the bullet and switched from 205/70R-14 to 225/60-16. I decided upon the 16" to make the most significant change in sidewall height. That, and there was a set of perfect GW 16's offered to me at a good price. I've been very pleased with the change. Even my wife, who often puts the kibosh on my "frivilous spending", agreed that the difference in the ride, especially with regard to crosswind buffeting, was worth the $700 that we spent on the wheels and tires.

I had the good fortune to log over 10,000 miles last year, traveling from the midwest to both the right and left coasts. Nothing but smiles about the tire and wheel choice.

Your concerns are very valid. The same questions I asked, actually. Let's take a look:

[Onion]

[Onion]

BTW - I don't have power steering and it does take a little bit more "work" driving around the city at lower speeds and parallel parking... I can feel it, but it is not bad and it by far offset by the performance change on the highway.
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'85 Vanagon Adventurewagen