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bugman56
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2007
Posts: 198
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 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: vw ground breaking ceremony badges |
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| recently a friend of mine found a 1938 vw groundbreaking ceremony badge, with the nazi logo in behind the beetle. i know there are reproductions of these, but how would i tell if this is real or not.it looks to be old but i know that doesnt mean anything.do the reproductions have writing on the back also.sorry i dont have any pics to post but i would be willing to send a pic thru my phone to somebody that may be able to help.thanks in advance for any help. |
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thom
Samba Member
Joined: October 12, 2000
Posts: 6304
Location: Sacramento
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 6:55 am Post subject: |
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This thread is useless without pix.
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:24 am Post subject: Re: vw ground breaking ceremony badges |
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| bugman56 wrote: |
| recently a friend of mine found a 1938 vw groundbreaking ceremony badge, with the nazi logo in behind the beetle. i know there are reproductions of these, but how would i tell if this is real or not.it looks to be old but i know that doesnt mean anything.do the reproductions have writing on the back also.sorry i dont have any pics to post but i would be willing to send a pic thru my phone to somebody that may be able to help.thanks in advance for any help. |
If it has any writing, it's not original.
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"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do |
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bugman56
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2007
Posts: 198
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| so if there is anything at all on the back it is a fake? the front looks pretty worn, almost copper colored on some of the raised sections, but the rest silver in color.on the back it has some writing on the swastika part "ges gesch" and on the lower section also on the back side says "r. schenkel pforzheim-brotz"Thom i will send you a pic to your phone if you would like, as i stated above i dont have a pic on my computer of this peice yet. |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| bugman56 wrote: |
| so if there is anything at all on the back it is a fake? the front looks pretty worn, almost copper colored on some of the raised sections, but the rest silver in color.on the back it has some writing on the swastika part "ges gesch" and on the lower section also on the back side says "r. schenkel pforzheim-brotz"Thom i will send you a pic to your phone if you would like, as i stated above i dont have a pic on my computer of this peice yet. |
Anything on the back....................definitely a fake. No question about it.
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"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do |
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bugman56
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2007
Posts: 198
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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can you explain why EK Militaria is selling one identical and stating it is real with the writing on the back?not trying to be a dick just curious where you got your info. i am not a guru when it comes to all things vw but am interested in knowing the facts.  |
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IN2VWS
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2006
Posts: 2555
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| bugman56 wrote: |
| can you explain why EK Militaria is selling one identical and stating it is real with the writing on the back?not trying to be a dick just curious where you got your info. i am not a guru when it comes to all things vw but am interested in knowing the facts. |
They don't actually say it is real.
Here are the pics from EK Militaria's website:
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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Ask Gary at EKM to explain to you why HE thinks it's real.
There are known examples in collections that go back 60+ years with direct ties to the actual event. Those examples are in "Tinnie" construction style........... very light metal with no markings. These original badges were never intended for sale and are therefore not marked with required Ges Gesch, RZM or maker-mark designation. Do a search in here and you will see several pages of information. Ask Gary to contact Steven Wolfe if he has questions...................He will know who Steven is and how to reach him.
If you buy it, you will probably not be able to re-sell it at anywhere near that price............and neither will Gary.  The few originals that come up for sale very very rarely sell in excess of $500. Gary's price would be high for a perfect reproduction, even at the Australian exchange rates. It is obviously cast, very much UNLIKE any other 3rd Reich badge/medal...............and that alone should have sent up a "red flag" to him. The German contact and known "world" expert on this pin is Simon Mitchell and he can be contacted through this site. (if you need more information) http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=19295
As soon as you get to see and hold an original.................you will know exactly why the EKM one is not even close. The quality of the original material is amazing.
Hope that helps.
Bob
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dantrefethen
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 729
Location: Boise Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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One really has to be careful out there.
There are some VERY good reproductions out there.
Bob has one, and I saw some at the VW Classic toy show.
Dan |
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Herbie3Rivers
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Joined: May 07, 2001
Posts: 1271
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 6:05 pm Post subject: |
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Here's a reproduction pin that I have. This one came from Terry Shuler and features two post mount pins on the back and is very crude on the back with no writing what so ever. Also note that the casting is entirely different from many of the others you see.
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dantrefethen
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 729
Location: Boise Idaho
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| Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| IN2VWS wrote: |
| bugman56 wrote: |
| can you explain why EK Militaria is selling one identical and stating it is real with the writing on the back?not trying to be a dick just curious where you got your info. i am not a guru when it comes to all things vw but am interested in knowing the facts. |
They don't actually say it is real.
Here are the pics from EK Militaria's website:
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He wants $250 for THIS!
http://www.ekmilitaria.com.au/Catalogue.htm
Dan |
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HerrrKafer
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004
Posts: 1465
Location: East Fishkill, NY
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:43 am Post subject: |
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| IN2VWS wrote: |
| bugman56 wrote: |
| can you explain why EK Militaria is selling one identical and stating it is real with the writing on the back?not trying to be a dick just curious where you got your info. i am not a guru when it comes to all things vw but am interested in knowing the facts. |
They don't actually say it is real.
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I just received this email from the seller:
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Hello Evan,
Thank you for your enquiry.
As far as I am concerned this badge is original not a reproduction. I purchased it from another dealer here in Australia, I am happy with it.
Regards,
Garry McDonald |
 Still wiggles out of it with the "As far as I am concerned...." What a slimy dude.
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 13, 2008 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| HerrrKafer wrote: |
| IN2VWS wrote: |
| bugman56 wrote: |
| can you explain why EK Militaria is selling one identical and stating it is real with the writing on the back?not trying to be a dick just curious where you got your info. i am not a guru when it comes to all things vw but am interested in knowing the facts. |
They don't actually say it is real.
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I just received this email from the seller:
| Quote: |
Hello Evan,
Thank you for your enquiry.
As far as I am concerned this badge is original not a reproduction. I purchased it from another dealer here in Australia, I am happy with it.
Regards,
Garry McDonald |
Still wiggles out of it with the "As far as I am concerned...." What a slimy dude. |
The key word is "dealer" here. Dealers don't own these badges...........if they did; they would never sell them. They are part of collections, and do not come up for sale on the "regular" trade shows, Samba ads, eBay, Craig's list, or hotel buys. This badge is a fake, purchased without knowledge, from a "dealer" who realized eventually what he had, and cut his losses with another "dealer" as some part of a larger sale of "Nazi" materal. It is the typical story. It happens all the time in the coin or stamp world with rare material.
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