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BugMan114
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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 Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: Centermount 44IDF on a 1600cc ? |
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Hi yall. I got a question for ya. Can a Weber 44 (single centermout) ever work on a stock 1600cc engine? I'm looking to buy one, and the guy said it was running on a stock 1600cc, and it ran great, but he already took it off the motor (of course  ). I read somewhere on here that some people have re jetted and put different venturies in the carb to make it work, but i heard that that was done with 40idfs. Can this also be done with 44 idf's? If so where to get them (cb, aircooled.net, etc.)? Or is anyone here using a 44idf on a stock 1600?
I do plan on going bigger later, but i don't want to pass up a good deal ($200), and it would be sweet to get that beast working on my motor. The only real mods i have on my motor is a blue coil, and a stinger exhaust. thanks in advance yall.
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1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR
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Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!! |
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Mongo63
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Joined: February 15, 2007
Posts: 1358
Location: prison city, IL
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: Centermount 44IDF on a 1600cc ? |
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| BugMan114 wrote: |
Hi yall. I got a question for ya. Can a Weber 44 (single centermout) ever work on a stock 1600cc engine? I'm looking to buy one, and the guy said it was running on a stock 1600cc, and it ran great, but he already took it off the motor (of course ). I read somewhere on here that some people have re jetted and put different venturies in the carb to make it work, but i heard that that was done with 40idfs. Can this also be done with 44 idf's? If so where to get them (cb, aircooled.net, etc.)? Or is anyone here using a 44idf on a stock 1600?
I do plan on going bigger later, but i don't want to pass up a good deal ($200), and it would be sweet to get that beast working on my motor. The only real mods i have on my motor is a blue coil, and a stinger exhaust. thanks in advance yall. |
44 is a bit much for a stock 16, but with some small venturies it could be satisfactory.
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kielbasa
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Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 1443
Location: Garbage Grove, CA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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it will run like shit, any single carb setup other then stock is not the greatest of choices.
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krusher
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Joined: September 24, 2002
Posts: 7662
Location: europe
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:50 am Post subject: |
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$200 is no cheap deal, you would also need the well heated manifold from aircooled.net to make it have a chance of working.
Then add jetting and venturis to get it running right and it adds up to a load of expense for very little bang for your buck.
Stick with your single solex.
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Scott Novak
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Joined: October 12, 2004
Posts: 1586
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:17 am Post subject: |
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When you consider that aftermarket exhaust systems do not provide as much intake manifold heat as stock exhausts do, and the additional problems you have getting a center mount carb to run well, you would probably be money ahead getting a dual single barrel carb set.
You can modify the intake manifold heater tubes to increase the manifold heat, but they still take longer to warm up than dual single barrel or dual two barrel carbs do.
Unless you are running off road and want to keep the carb setup as simple as possible for reliability reasons, stick with the stock carb until you can either afford a dual single barrel carb set or better still a dual two barrel carb setup.
Scott Novak |
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flatfour
Samba Member
Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 693
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:30 am Post subject: |
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Save your money and gets some dual IDF's or stick with the stocker. That thing will be a pig and hard to tune.
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scottvw
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Joined: November 17, 2004
Posts: 2824
Location: Centennial, CO
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: |
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| flatfour wrote: |
| Save your money and gets some dual IDF's or stick with the stocker. That thing will be a pig and hard to tune. |
X2 |
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broncbob
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Joined: November 13, 2008
Posts: 26
Location: Salt Lake City/ World Wide
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Been hear and try'd that.....Even with 32 vent. it would not tune. |
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BugMan114
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Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Woah, i guess its unanimous (can't spell  ) then  . i'll keep lookin  .
But for future reference, is tuning dual weber IDF's or other dual carb set-ups easier then a centermount IDF (on a larger engine of course)? Is a centermount IDF just not as good as dual IDF's when it comes to tuning and performance (Still on a larger engine)?
BTW I'm looking to do this for my baja bugs, but it really won't see too much wild off roading (tho the way i drive on the street, you'd think i was off roading ). Mostly street driven, mostly just for the baja look.
Thanks
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR
Aircooled Airheads
Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!! |
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BugMan114
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:15 pm Post subject: |
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Oh and what about a set of 40/44pict solex carbs? I actually have a set at home with no intakes. Would that be a good choice for a 1600cc?
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR
Aircooled Airheads
Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!! |
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volken65
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Joined: May 02, 2006
Posts: 171
Location: Palmdale, Ca
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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if you think $200 bucks is a deal... i would run it.
i've had a center mounted 40 weber on a 1600cc and it ran good... not great but good. one thing i did like was i didn't have to sync them all the time. |
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lostinbaja
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Joined: December 19, 2004
Posts: 4036
Location: Frankfort, Illinois
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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I must be a better tuner of Weber carbs then a lot of people. I have setup many 1600's with single 40's and 44's and they run great.
You must use an aluminum manifold
You must have manifold heat.
You must have the proper size vents.
You must have the proper size squirter nozzles.
With all of this done, the tuning will be a piece of cake.
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flatfour
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Joined: August 23, 2003
Posts: 693
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| volken65 wrote: |
if you think $200 bucks is a deal... i would run it.
i've had a center mounted 40 weber on a 1600cc and it ran good... not great but good. one thing i did like was i didn't have to sync them all the time. |
I have had dual carbs for years on both my cars and if you use a quality linkage and sync them properly you shouldnt have to keep adjusting them.
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BugMan114
Samba Member
Joined: March 22, 2007
Posts: 3744
Location: Ellenwood, GA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| lostinbaja wrote: |
I must be a better tuner of Weber carbs then a lot of people. I have setup many 1600's with single 40's and 44's and they run great.
You must use an aluminum manifold
You must have manifold heat.
You must have the proper size vents.
You must have the proper size squirter nozzles.
With all of this done, the tuning will be a piece of cake. |
So what size vents (venturies right?) do you use, and where do you get them from? Where to get squirter nozzles as well (are these jets?)?
_________________
1974 Super Beetle: Custom resto in progress
1972 Super Beetle: Daily Driver
1971 Std. Beetle w/ 1929 Mercedes Benz Gazelle kit
1960 Baja Bug
1969 Baja Bug
Sand Rail- Homemade
Sand Rail- FUBAR
Aircooled Airheads
Why the hell do they call it a gland nut. its obviously a big fat bolt!!! |
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kielbasa
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 1443
Location: Garbage Grove, CA
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| lostinbaja wrote: |
I must be a better tuner of Weber carbs then a lot of people. I have setup many 1600's with single 40's and 44's and they run great.
You must use an aluminum manifold
You must have manifold heat.
You must have the proper size vents.
You must have the proper size squirter nozzles.
With all of this done, the tuning will be a piece of cake. |
maybe you just dont have that great of an ear... alot of people will mistake "good" for "great"
comparing single to dual, there is no such thing as "great" dual setups will always be better, its as close as your gonna get to injection, with out spending the money for it.
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pow_rider17
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Joined: October 13, 2006
Posts: 509
Location: Burque, NM
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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Where to get squirter nozzles as well (are these jets?)?[/quote]
These are accelerator pump jets. And I would just get a jet reamer and gauge rather than buying new jets. It will be usefull for resizing all the jets also. |
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Mongo63
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Joined: February 15, 2007
Posts: 1358
Location: prison city, IL
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| lostinbaja wrote: |
I must be a better tuner of Weber carbs then a lot of people. I have setup many 1600's with single 40's and 44's and they run great.
You must use an aluminum manifold
You must have manifold heat.
You must have the proper size vents.
You must have the proper size squirter nozzles.
With all of this done, the tuning will be a piece of cake. |
Right on! A PROPERLY set up and jetted single can be 85-90% as good as comparable duals without the sync issues. Most people just don't know how to do it and perpetuate the myth with statements like ezkiel's. I have sucessfully run a single Dell through the coldest Midwestern winters without issue. Don't take the hater's word for it, do some research and make your own decision. As a postscript a performance distributor such as an 019 or 010 really helps performance and drivability so lose that 009.
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Mongo only pawn in game of life...
| mharney wrote: |
| Behold the true power of the extractor! Mongo has it right! |
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Eric_S
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Joined: August 12, 2007
Posts: 862
Location: Sparks (think Reno) NV
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 12:28 am Post subject: |
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Think about the intake pulse sequences on the left side and the right with a single IDF/DRLA or dual 1 bbl. One throat feeds the left, the other, the right.
IDF/DRLA: (R1)(L4)(L3)(R2) IOW: RLLRRLLRRLLR
Dual IDF/DRLA: 1 pulse, 1 throat
Remember, air and gas accelerate and decelerate at different rates (think pulses). Now go take a bathroom break, relax, close your eyes and try to picture what might be happening.
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kielbasa
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Joined: November 28, 2007
Posts: 1443
Location: Garbage Grove, CA
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:05 am Post subject: |
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just because people can make a single carb work. doesnt mean its best, it takes someone who knows what they are doing, alot of time. and labor hurts the wallet. you could spend less time with dual setup, and make it run just as well, or do it right, and make it run twice as well as single. think about it. common sense. 1 barrel feeds 1 cyl, not 2barrels for 4.
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manxracer1
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Joined: December 07, 2007
Posts: 536
Location: Escondido calif.
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| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:34 am Post subject: webers |
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I have run a single 40 on a 1600cc for years. It ran great & got good mileage. I took the single 40 off & put dual 44's on. There was not much differance in power, but the mileage sure changed. It was a stock 1600cc with a engle 100 cam & a single quiet pack in my 70 bug.
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