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A few (more) IRS questions
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adriaan pienaar
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 1:22 pm    Post subject: A few (more) IRS questions Reply with quote

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Progress on the chassis of my swb buggy project is good, but I just have a few questions that I hope someone (or anyone!) can help me with..

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I am using the rear of an IRS Beetle suspension (single spring plate), but I have the trailing arms of an IRS Type 3 (double spring plate) - the trailing arms pictured below are actually the 'before pics' as they are now red in the pic above Wink

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- Can I interchange the single Beetle spring plates with the double Type 3 spring plates?
- How do I get it off the old torsion bars (it came off quite easy on the LH side with a hammer, but it seems stuck on the RH side)
- Are single spring plate IRS torsion bars and double spring plate IRS torsion bars the same?

Any advice will be appreciated, thanks! Cool
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dirtbugger
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2009 5:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not sure about your first 2 questions however, I always thought that the only reason VW used 2 spring plates on the T3 and only 1 on the T1 was because the T3 was a heavier vehicle.

I use the T3 doubles on my buggy but that's because I only like off roading and I want the extra strength they may offer.
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tinnocker
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 1970 Beetle T-1 IRS in my buggy has dual spring plates.
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VOLKSWAGNUT Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tinnocker wrote:
The 1970 Beetle T-1 IRS in my buggy has dual spring plates.


Mine too! 1970 Type 1 dual spring plates.
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LeeVW
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

- Can I interchange the single Beetle spring plates with the double Type 3 spring plates?

One thing to check is the bolt holes. Not all spring plates have holes that line up with all trailing arms.

- How do I get it off the old torsion bars (it came off quite easy on the LH side with a hammer, but it seems stuck on the RH side)

So the torsion bar is stuck in the spring plate splines? First, pop the end cap off if you haven't already done it. You can spot weld it back on later. Next, soak the splines with PB Blaster or a similar penetrating oil. Now try a few whacks with a large hammer using piece of wood between the hammer and the torsion bar. If that doesn't do it, find someone with a press and have them press it out.

- Are single spring plate IRS torsion bars and double spring plate IRS torsion bars the same?

As far as I know, the bars are the same.

I hope someone with more knowledge will fill in the blanks soon.

Lee
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adriaan pienaar
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 7:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for all the replies, guys - I have indeed finally managed to get the RH spring plates off as well, albeit with some unorthodox methods, but lets not go there in too much detail Wink

Basically, in a nutshell, it seems like the inner spring plate (closest ot the gearbox) has over the years cut a small groove into the metal of the IRS suspension housing, in other words that part that 'stops' the plate from 'jumping' too far downwards. Lets say, for example, I tried to remove them while still on the car, so the tension of the spring plates are downwards (vertical). Hitting them sideways (horizontally) would normally push the plate past the 'stop' and loose, but the little groove now stopped that from happening. I first had to push it UPwards and away from the groove, and then sideways to come off the torsion bars. I do not know if this makes any sense, but it is off now! Cool
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LeeVW
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, I get it. The spring plate was hanging up on its stop. I thought you already had it out of the car and the splines were stuck.

Lee
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adriaan pienaar
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps I was a bit unclear. The (single) spring plates on the chassis came off easily, but the torsion bars are (stilll) stuck both sides on the inside splines of the chassis.

The double spring plates are from an automatic Type 3 suspension, the RH side was stuck (on the suspension), but I managed to get it off this afternoon.

So, my (updated Wink ) question at this stage:

- Can I put the double spring plates on the (stuck) torsion bars of the single plate suspension? (Then I won't need to remove the torsion bars)

Thanks for all the advice!
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adriaan pienaar
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 2:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got the chassis back from the powder coaters yesterday Cool

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Another question (and I got conflicting answers to date) - these two large washers are supposed to be fitted on the outside of the trailing arm bush, as in the pic, right?

(That is how I removed them from two sets of IRS suspensions)

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lostinbaja
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 4:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The last 2 and the only 2 pairs of trailing arms I took off, had both washers on the outside.
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 4:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

my 69 chassis had double spring plates, I was told this was the only year. But I see from your post they were on 70,s as well. I replaced my stock plates with adjustable plates,and was told to remove the washers on stock torsion housing and the single plates would fit. They fit fine. My swing arm washers were the same as yours and I reinstalled them the same way.
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is cool to know.
I can also vouch for 1970 with dual plates. I was at a car show last weekend and seen one with duals. I always thought the newest cars had them but looking at a 1975 beside it did not have them, boy was I confused.
Great thread!
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adriaan pienaar
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PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeeVW wrote:
One thing to check is the bolt holes. Not all spring plates have holes that line up with all trailing arms.



Indeed, thanks Lee. To illustrate it, on the pic below are two left side spring plates, the bottom one (single plate) is from an early Beetle and the top one (double plate) is from an automatic Type 3. I am using the trailing arms and (double) spring plates from the same Type 3, so I won't have a problem. The 4th hole (closest to the torsion bar) is threaded on the trailing arm, BTW...

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PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes - both washers are on the outside.

don't know why exactly, but it's specified in the manual and exploding parts diagrams
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