van pulls to the right when I brake hard

madspaniard · Last edited by madspaniard on Sun Nov 22, 2009 2:52 pm; edited 1 time in total

Like the title says, my van pulls to the right when I brake hard on the highway. I did an alignment just in case and it didn't fix the problem. I've had the VanCafe big brakes in the front for over a year plus 15" tires, the van brakes fine.

Thanks for the help!

E
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1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD

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autostick73 · Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:42 pm Post subject:

I would check your brake lines. Sounds like too much pressure on one side causing it to pull. I have heard that it is the opposite side that is pulling is where the problem is.
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morymob · Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:11 am Post subject:

Make sure u have NO play in steering etc then check left side,it's not doing its share.

pioneer1 · Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:14 am Post subject: pulls to one side

I believe the usual problem is a leaking wheel cylinder. It. will contaminate the brake pads with brake fluid and cause the rotor to slip or grip the pads unevenly
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kevtherev · Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:54 am Post subject:

madspaniard · Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:30 am Post subject:

could this be the problem?

rear right wheel area

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD

"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali

tencentlife · Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:06 am Post subject:

Nah that's your CV or axle bearing slinging grease. take a look inside the swing arm housing and it's probably full of moly, the oil is bleeding out thru the housing seam. Not part of your braking problem, though, even if you had a leaky rear wheel cylinder it wouldn't cause a pull on the steering.

After first establishing that there isn't undue play in your steering, you have basically not enough brake pressure or friction on the front left. Inspect that brake caliper, look for leaks, if it looks dry then lift both front wheels and spin them while dousing the rotors liberally, both outer and inner sides of both rotors, with Brakleen or WD40 . No, I'm serious here; WD40 is a good solvent/cleaner and it does wonders on cleaning disc brake pads and rotors. Road test, just be sure to apply the brakes steadily a couple times before you need them to dry off the WD. If this doesn't restore even friction, then you could bleed just the left side in case there's any air in that circuit, but you probably need to replace the flex-hoses; they can swell internally and limit delivered pressure at the caliper.
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JunkYarDog · Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:19 pm Post subject:

You could also have someone apply the brakes while you have the front end lifted. Then you could check to see if one side is not engaging. If a hose has clogged with debri then the left side might not be working or may be only partially working.
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vwlovr · Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:49 pm Post subject:

+1 on the brake lines. back before the samba when i was left to my own devices (which wasn't much as i was 20yo and broke) i had this problem on my 71 bus. replaced a caliper, replaced the master, turned out to be the $8 brake hose.

Vanagon Nut · Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 8:16 pm Post subject:

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 52429

Vanagon Nut · Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:18 pm Post subject:

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 52429

Wheel bearing grease, oil, and sometimes brake fluid getting on brake parts may cause the brakes to grab. One trick to finding out what is actually happening with your brakes is to find a dirt or gravel road and apply the brakes as you drive along. This way you should be able to detect what brakes are locking up and which ones are not. Uneven braking on the front will typically cause a vehicle to swerve much harsher than uneven braking on the rear.

levi · Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:21 am Post subject:

I don't think you'll get much if any pull as a result of one of the shoes.
I just had a wheel cylinder spew madly inside my right drum.
The inside of the tire and wheel were dripping, and when I pulled the drum nothing was dry. Couldn't have got more brake fluid in there if you had sprayed it with a hose. Rolling Eyes

, and I drove it for two days like that Embarassed

I have a feeling the drum on that side wasn't contributing much if any, and it tracked true under braking.
Man, I hate messing with brake fluid all over everything.... Evil or Very Mad

btw, this was just yesterday that I pulled this, and put in a new wheel cylinder.
Put it back together with the wet shoes on that side, though dried off what I could.
Figuring that side of shoes is ruined, but the inside of the drums had some pitting, so, I know there's 2 vanagons in the local pic a part, think I'll go see what those drums look like first.
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tencentlife · Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:48 am Post subject:

Uneven rear braking effort, if it does anything untoward at all, can make a car drift, but it will never make the steering pull. If you actually feel a torque reaction at the steering wheel upon braking the problem has become pretty severe and it is always going to be a front brake problem.

Staining around that rear control arm bearing housing will almost always be from the CV's slinging grease, and the oil in the grease seeping into porous areas, like along seams, as was pictured. Of course the color of the grease you find inside will tell you straight away, since the CV's use black moly but the bearings use a conventional lithium grease; taking a sample with your finger will tell you right away. The relatively large radius of the joints and lack of seals establish good conditions for them to sling grease when it gets warm enough to ooze out between the mating surfaces when wheel speed is high. VW and other manufacturers in some applications used a gasket that sat inside the flange and sealed the joint body to it, but use of these, although a good idea, was applied inconsistently, and where they were put in by the factory they are almost always damaged or lost the first time the joints get serviced. I've encountered them on numerous cars but the gasket has never once been reusable so I've never put one back in.

There is certainly nothing wrong with sealing the joints to the flanges, I'm seeing enough grease slung that I'm planning on going this route. A little bead of a silicone-based sealant around the inside of the flange cup and the boot cup would help keep the black stuff where it belongs.

You do occasionally see rear wheel bearings sling grease if the seals are really shot; when the outboard seal goes you end up with grease inside the brake drum, which can foul the shoes. I've seen this happen with Vanagons, so be advised that is a source of contamination for rear brakes that will compromise friction far worse than brake fluid will.
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Shop for unique and useful Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
https://intrepidoverland.com/vanistan/
also available at VanCafe.com!

Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is death to doctrine.

Vanagon Nut · Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:46 pm Post subject:

Thanks TC.

I now recall reading a thread about someone suggesting a Porsche PN for a seal that could likely be used at outer CV flange. But.... silicone sounds like a good solution.

I should have read the OP's post more carefully. I get what you mean. Big difference between pulling and drifting.

Neil.
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Vanagon Nut · Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 12:50 pm Post subject:

jbeaulie · Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 1:55 pm Post subject:

I vote for a frozen caliper.

jake

simd0ggie · Posted: Mon Nov 23, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject:

+1 vote for frozen left front caliper.
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madspaniard · Posted: Tue Nov 24, 2009 10:23 pm Post subject:

update: I didn't have a lot of time to look at things, swapped left and right rotors and the problem is still there. I forgot to mention in my original post that this does not happen every time I brake or with the same intensity. I need to power bleed the brakes and see what happens, calipers have very few miles on them.
_________________
1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD

"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali


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