Information on Repairing an ASI Riviera Pop Top

[?Waldo?]

I have an '83 ASI Riviera. In general the top is in excellent shape. The tent is flawless. The top, however, has a few interior cracks. From what I have heard, the top is made of ABS plastic. I am interested in information on how to repair the cracks. Kayakwesty posted a couple links in this thread:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=254335

I don't want to spend the dough on a plastic welder. The dissolving ABS with MEK and brushing it on sounds like a pretty slick trick. I was also considering roughing up the surfaces with sandpaper and fiberglassing over the whole thing. Anyone have more thoughts, information or links that would be helpful?

Andrew

[IrideWheelies]

Andrew,

Can you post some pics of the cracks in your top. I have some cracks in mine near the handles, I've seen them in a few others too.

I was planning on repairing mine soon as well.
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89' Dove Blue Syncro Hightop

[Dogpilot]

Most interior panels in airplane (I know, there I go again), are ABS (with a flame retarder in it). When I have to fix cracked interior panels, which are really thin and by price, seem to made of platinum. I get some 1/8" ABS sheet, heat it up with my heatgun, and then press it while soft to mold to the shape of the corner. It may take a couple of heatings to it so it conforms well. Then slather on some ABS glue from the plumbing isle of ACE on both sides. Press it together for about two minutes and its done. I do this to the back side of the part, naturally. However, sometimes the cracks remain a bit open on the visible side. Hopefully when you pressed the parts together some oozed up through the crack filling it. Otherwise a bit of the glue worked in with a toothpick works as well.

Paint to cover.
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Geology with a Syncro rocks!
86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G

[?Waldo?]

Here are pics.

[DAIZEE]

This thread will be much appreciated when Scooby Blu comes out of the garage. Then I can raise the roof
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'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[?Waldo?]

Would it be a mistake to pull that whole panel, rough it up with sandpaper and fiberglass over it? The only thing I can think might be a problem is if it had any adhesion issues, but I think even that wouldn't be a problem if I did both sides and wrapped the edges.

[Perales]

Methylene chloride works with ABS. It will wick into the smallest cracks and fuse them together. The bigger cracks can also be fixed well if you can close them up while the solvent does it's magic. It is fast, strong and clean, not adding any additional material.
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-- 1987 Westfalia automatic (Captain Vino)

[DAIZEE]

Fibreglassing is sorta thick and I would think there would be a problem in the corners allowing them to still fit. Just using limited experience with fibreglassing in boats.
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'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[Steelhead]

Andrew- When I rehabbed the CHC top, I had to do some repairs to the ABS shell (and my CHC interior ceiling is essentially the same as yours). I have some hairline cracks in the ceiling forming-like yours. I used pure resin to repair the cracks to the outside shell. Sanded and dremmelled well and gooped it on in layers. Then sanded it down smooth and painted. So far so good and you would never know it was repaired. I really can't believe how well the resin bonded to the ABS. I guess time will tell, but its been a few years and its looks the same as the day I did it. I tried some plastic epoxy first and was disappointed with the results, but it was that weird putty stuff.

For the inside, I will do something similar if needed, though the more important solution is to overlay those ceiling rails with aluminum supports. This will give it rigidity and you wont get the flex-cracking.

Funny thing is, I suggested this to the old owner of CHC and he had already figured this out on his own. Below are the pics he sent me of his own solution. Maybe this will give you some ideas. if/when I do it I will use screw caps to clean up the look. But you get the idea. This would also help mask the repaired cracks.

Oh, and yes if you could pull the ceiling out it would be the best way to work on it, mine (a recycled top) was so fricken stuck to the roof that I couldn't get them apart, and risked cracking both. That's why I ended up repairing and installing the whole thing as one unit. Maybe yours will drop...it would certainly make for easier repairing and much better end result. If you get it down, don't be afraid to line your ceiling with cloth (I used thin grey rug). Good for a lot of reasons, including sound, moisture, hiding cracks, etc. See mine below, and note the aluminum I used to reinforce the center arch.

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'77 Bay Window / '89 Caratsburg (aka. the Stormtrooper)

[?Waldo?]

Thanks for the info. I hadn't thought about the inner and outer being bonded together, but there sure is a good chance that they are. Do you know if the ceiling rails have wood rails behind the plastic? The aluminum rail looks perfect. If I can't separate the two parts easily I will do similar after fusing the cracks chemically and brushing on ABS melted in MEK. If I can separate the parts, then I will reinforce as Dogpilot suggested. I happen to have some 1/16 and 1/8 ABS sheets here. Definitely, some excellent info in this thread. Ideas are percolating.

[Steelhead]

RE: bonded celing/roof.
Not sure how the ASI top is constructed, and unless someone reading this has taken one apart, you probably won't know until you try. Even then there could be some variance. All I know is that between the CHC and the Riviera someone definitely borrowed elements of the design. And I can tell you that the ceiling and roof didn't need to be glued together, and the way the CHC is constructed today it doesn't require glue.

RE: wood.
Yes, at least on the CHC top there is wood rails (it was crummy laminate which was failing so it was replaced when rehabbed). But if you unscrew (or unstaple) the tent from the outside, you should be able to see what its stapled/screwed too. Obviously, those wood rails are what the aluminum reinforcement would be screwed into...as well as the existing handles, tent, etc. If like mine, there are probably blocks of wood in the rib that the spring handles are bolted through...to keep the plastic rib from collapsing.

On the CHC, there was also some thin loose plywood pieces between ceiling and roof (between ridges), but that seemed to be mostly to add rigidity for the handle screws that go through the roof.

Keep in mind that the one of the reasons the ceiling is twisting/cracking is because that wood in the rails may be failing. It provides much of the torsion strength. If you simply repair the plastic cracks without serious reinforcement of some sort (aluminum or replacement wood), it may remain vulnerable to cracking. DP's suggestion of backing the plastic may be enough, but I would go with belt and suspenders because its not meant to be structural and is obviously prone to cracking. Also, if you back the ceiling with thin plastic in the broken areas it may be fine, but it may also very cause slight issues with fitment, etc.
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'77 Bay Window / '89 Caratsburg (aka. the Stormtrooper)

[Bogey2u]

Timely thread as I'm currently repairing/restoring my ASI Riviera top. I currently have mine off the vehicle and disassembled. There are three pieces to the top consisting of the base, which includes the luggage carrier over the cab area, the roof that sits on top of the base and an inner roof liner, which is the piece that has the handles to raise and lower the roof.

Contrary to popular thought the top is not made of ABS, but is a formed thermoset urethane material that cannot be melted without destroying the material. It can be heated to about 450 degrees, but is not a good candidate for plastic welding as heating it beyond this point can destroy the thermoset material. Reference this link to better understand the qualities of this material: http://www.urethanesupply.com/howtorepair.php. Westy tops are made of fiberglass and that happens to be the best material for repairing the ASI tops also.

Since there is a current interest in this thread I will collect and posts some pics in the next few days that I've taken to document my repair. My Vanagon is an '81 air cooled.

[DAIZEE]

please do. I am following this thread to learn.
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'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)

[Syncroincity]

On the new tops, I make the inner ceiling from oak; a ladder frame, topped by 1/4" plywood with headliner on the inner side. The ceiling is connected to the outer fairing with bolts and angle steel. If yours is really shot, you could simply make a new inner ceiling, and bolt it to the existing fairing.

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'86 Syncro CHC Top AAZ Turbodiesel
'04 Passat Variant 4Mo 5MT

Vanagon Build: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=466866&highlight=

[?Waldo?]

Jerry, do you have a source for the tents? How much?

[rmcd]

I had a good experience purchasing an ASI canvas from BusDepot.com.

http://www.busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=180002

I had a yellow canvas that had a few areas that were beginning to delaminate so I decided to upgrade to a new one while it is all apart. I'll begin posting pictures of my restoration.

[AzRaven]

A good way to fix cracks without using a plastic welder is to create a v-groove either with a chisel or a cone shaped burr on a dremmel tool. Then lay short pieces of solvent soaked welding rod (Match the plastic!). You can make a putty with the welding rod and solvent.

Using a combination of heat and solvent works very well! You just need patience and practice.......

For example:

http://tahosa.us/Eurovan/Eurovan/index.html

[Smiro]

Hello Everyone,

I would like to clear up a few things about our CHC tops. When I purchased the company in June of 1989 the tops were made in Seattle by a thermal plastic company. I owned the large wood molds which had many holes around the mold. A large sheet of ABS plastic was heated and placed on the mold and a large vacuum was connected under the mold to suck down the plastic onto the wood mold. All three parts were made this way.

The Seattle company decided to close the division that made my tops and send me my large wooden molds. This was around late 1991. I decided to make fiberglass molds from the wooden molds and make the tops fiberglass. The Seattle company lost my ceiling mold so I made the ceiling out of solid oak for the frame and 1/8 inch ply lined with velour headliner. You can go to this link to see how we made the tops:
http://countryhomescampers.com/products/pop-top
There are three videos.

As for the cracks I came up with the aluminum "L" brackets to support the ceiling. The reason for the cracks is due to the separation of the wood frame from the plastic and the constant bouncing of the ceiling. The ceiling and roof was glued together to keep rattling to a minimum and increase strength to the top. It is very difficult to separate the ceiling from the roof because they super-glued the parts together.

If you have any more questions I can be reached at [email protected]

Happy camping everyone!

Regards,

[rmcd]

Thanks for sharing all the info. Do you resell the interior roof liner?
I've retrofit an asi variant to my syncro. Soon I'll be working on trimming out the inner edge. Could you share a construction details about how to support and trim the inner edge?
Thanks
Rob
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VW LT40 build. Like a Vanagon but 30% larger in every direction and 40% slower even in metric.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=749359&highlight=