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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16807
Location: State College, PA
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 Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 4:32 am Post subject: |
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OK - the mix screws on all three of mine are somewhere between 1 1/2 to 3 turns. I am running 50 to 55 idles and 130-132 mains. Fairly stock 1600, mild 1776 and mild 1955. One has the Aircooled.net vac mod, one was done by Air Cooled Engineering and I dont remember who did the 3rd set. ACEs looks just like the one that I think Max Welton posted, which is the typical set up.
I would STRONGLY suggest talking to Kaddie Shack, if they did y9our carbs. But you just may need to blow out your idle passages.
I am also assuming that when you adjust your idle mix, you start at around 2 turns or so and then go for max idle speed and go back and forth several times. And you do NOT have fuel dribbling from the accel pump nozzle at idle, correct? That would make you run very rich and is easy to correct bu adjusting the nut. Just for the hell of it, what plugs are you running?
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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DrummerDaveB
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2005
Posts: 504
Location: Louisville, KY Area
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:04 am Post subject: |
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| andk5591 wrote: |
OK - the mix screws on all three of mine are somewhere between 1 1/2 to 3 turns. I am running 50 to 55 idles and 130-132 mains. Fairly stock 1600, mild 1776 and mild 1955. One has the Aircooled.net vac mod, one was done by Air Cooled Engineering and I dont remember who did the 3rd set. ACEs looks just like the one that I think Max Welton posted, which is the typical set up.
I would STRONGLY suggest talking to Kaddie Shack, if they did y9our carbs. But you just may need to blow out your idle passages.
I am also assuming that when you adjust your idle mix, you start at around 2 turns or so and then go for max idle speed and go back and forth several times. And you do NOT have fuel dribbling from the accel pump nozzle at idle, correct? That would make you run very rich and is easy to correct bu adjusting the nut. Just for the hell of it, what plugs are you running? |
Yes, that is how I adjust the idle. It just gets higher till pretty much seated.. . maybe 1/2 turn out from seated.
There is no siphoning that I could detect from the accel pump at any rpm.
Plugs are NGK B6HS
Should I try the B5HS? http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=398987
Would that have any effect in how it runs?
_________________
79 SB Vert, in pieces.
Kadrons, SVDA. |
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3066
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:17 am Post subject: |
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hi dave. i am sorry to hear .that your kadrons are still not running right . if i was you. i would go back to stock jetting a 55 idl jet 130 main jet my self i have never had a set of kadrons that would burn clean. my exhaust pipe tip was allways black lol i dont know if you have checked. your coil out but it sounds like your coil is going bad . i never had any luck sinking a set of kadrons with a uni- sink.i could never get a good reading the gauge was all over the place . the only way i could get a set of kadrons carbs in sink. was to turn the idl. screws all the way out and then turn them in till they just hit the idl. stop. then i turn the scews in one and a half turns or till the motor idls. at 1,200 rpm. i have never on my motors that i have had over the years that i ran a set of kadrons on . that liked to idle below 1,200 rpms. my motor just did not run well at all below 1,200 rpms. my street race motor that has kadron 44 s on idls at 1,200 rpm and its a street motor with a CB cheater cam. that i took out of my street car and put into my friends 1,500 lbs race car . it runs 14: 22s at 91 MPH in the 1/4 mile . just my two cents good luck dave hope every thing works out and you get the carbs running right spencerfvee......................................................................................... ="DrummerDaveB"]
| DarthWeber wrote: |
I'm not sure of the method Jeff Lain uses to port the Kads for vacuum but I'm pretty sure it works well. 
If the venturis aren't tight it could potentially create some tuning problems. It's easy enough to check and tighten the set screws. Just snug, not 200 ft/lbs.  |
No 6' cheater bar. Got it.  [/quote] |
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DrummerDaveB
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2005
Posts: 504
Location: Louisville, KY Area
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| spencerfvee wrote: |
| hi dave. i am sorry to hear .that your kadrons are still not running right . if i was you. i would go back to stock jetting a 55 idl jet 130 main jet my self i have never had a set of kadrons that would burn clean. my exhaust pipe tip was allways black lol i dont know if you have checked. your coil out but it sounds like your coil is going bad . i never had any luck sinking a set of kadrons with a uni- sink.i could never get a good reading the gauge was all over the place . the only way i could get a set of kadrons carbs in sink. was to turn the idl. screws all the way out and then turn them in till they just hit the idl. stop. then i turn the scews in one and a half turns or till the motor idls. at 1,200 rpm. i have never on my motors that i have had over the years that i ran a set of kadrons on . that liked to idle below 1,200 rpms. my motor just did not run well at all below 1,200 rpms. my street race motor that has kadron 44 s on idls at 1,200 rpm and its a street motor with a CB cheater cam. that i took out of my street car and put into my friends 1,500 lbs race car . it runs 14: 22s at 91 MPH in the 1/4 mile . just my two cents good luck dave hope every thing works out and you get the carbs running right spencerfvee......................................................................................... |
Hey Spencer,
It's no biggie. It's a project car, and I cant drive it [besides around the subdivision a little bit] until I do a bunch more work to it anyway, so I'll keep messing with it until it is right. I may have to break down and buy a wideband afr gauge, weld in some bungs, and see what these things are really doing, particularly at partial throttle when it falls on its face. I hate to spend the money, but if that's what it takes ....
I synced mine w/ a home-made manometer - tubing w/ some gear oil in there, crank it over, and adjust the linkage until the oil goes back and forth w/ the compression strokes, and stops trying to suck out one side or the other.
It idles really well, even at low rpms (no tach to say exactly what rpm) and runs out well in the garage. It just doesn't run well under load at partial throttle, And as I said a few posts ago, just feels soggy all around.
Im pretty sure I dont need bigger jets though. I started w/ the bigger jets and it ran like crap. It has gotten [somewhat] better w/ the smaller jets that are in there now.
_________________
79 SB Vert, in pieces.
Kadrons, SVDA. |
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3066
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:28 am Post subject: |
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hi dave . it just kind of hit me . if i am right you have a 1979 vert . i worked at a vw dealer in 1973 when the 3:88 ring and pinion were put in the bugs. i drove all the vws that vw made that year and they were all slugish as you put it. because of the 3:88 gear . they were out and out dogs i never up shifted and down shifted so much 4th gear was a dog on hills . i made a lot of money back then. putting 4:125 trans in vws and dave if you have taller tires on your bug it makes it even run more slugish and a other thing if your useing a 1979 motor the intake valves are real small and ex valves on the heads .this could be making your motor even more slugish with the bigger venturis on your carbs trying to feed the cyls . maybe thats why you see guys running the smaller weber 34 ict carbs on stock motors . allso i think your motor might be running 6:5 1 CR if the motor has a lot of miles on it and has never been rebuilt some thing to think about just trying to help you out spencerfvee .......................................................................................................................................................................................
| DrummerDaveB wrote: |
| spencerfvee wrote: |
| hi dave. i am sorry to hear .that your kadrons are still not running right . if i was you. i would go back to stock jetting a 55 idl jet 130 main jet my self i have never had a set of kadrons that would burn clean. my exhaust pipe tip was allways black lol i dont know if you have checked. your coil out but it sounds like your coil is going bad . i never had any luck sinking a set of kadrons with a uni- sink.i could never get a good reading the gauge was all over the place . the only way i could get a set of kadrons carbs in sink. was to turn the idl. screws all the way out and then turn them in till they just hit the idl. stop. then i turn the scews in one and a half turns or till the motor idls. at 1,200 rpm. i have never on my motors that i have had over the years that i ran a set of kadrons on . that liked to idle below 1,200 rpms. my motor just did not run well at all below 1,200 rpms. my street race motor that has kadron 44 s on idls at 1,200 rpm and its a street motor with a CB cheater cam. that i took out of my street car and put into my friends 1,500 lbs race car . it runs 14: 22s at 91 MPH in the 1/4 mile . just my two cents good luck dave hope every thing works out and you get the carbs running right spencerfvee......................................................................................... |
Hey Spencer,
It's no biggie. It's a project car, and I cant drive it [besides around the subdivision a little bit] until I do a bunch more work to it anyway, so I'll keep messing with it until it is right. I may have to break down and buy a wideband afr gauge, weld in some bungs, and see what these things are really doing, particularly at partial throttle when it falls on its face. I hate to spend the money, but if that's what it takes ....
I synced mine w/ a home-made manometer - tubing w/ some gear oil in there, crank it over, and adjust the linkage until the oil goes back and forth w/ the compression strokes, and stops trying to suck out one side or the other.
It idles really well, even at low rpms (no tach to say exactly what rpm) and runs out well in the garage. It just doesn't run well under load at partial throttle, And as I said a few posts ago, just feels soggy all around.
Im pretty sure I dont need bigger jets though. I started w/ the bigger jets and it ran like crap. It has gotten [somewhat] better w/ the smaller jets that are in there now. |
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DrummerDaveB
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2005
Posts: 504
Location: Louisville, KY Area
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| spencerfvee wrote: |
| hi dave . it just kind of hit me . if i am right you have a 1979 vert . i worked at a vw dealer in 1973 when the 3:88 ring and pinion were put in the bugs. i drove all the vws that vw made that year and they were all slugish as you put it. because of the 3:88 gear . they were out and out dogs i never up shifted and down shifted so much 4th gear was a dog on hills . i made a lot of money back then. putting 4:125 trans in vws and dave if you have taller tires on your bug it makes it even run more slugish and a other thing if your useing a 1979 motor the intake valves are real small and ex valves on the heads .this could be making your motor even more slugish with the bigger venturis on your carbs trying to feed the cyls . maybe thats why you see guys running the smaller weber 34 ict carbs on stock motors . allso i think your motor might be running 6:5 1 CR if the motor has a lot of miles on it and has never been rebuilt some thing to think about just trying to help you out spencerfvee |
I know it's geared higher, and I get that it will have slower acceleration due to that. That isnt what Im worried about.
But you're right about the small intake valves. It does have the original FI heads. Im not even sure if this engine has ever been rebuilt - didnt pull the flywheel and see if the case was marked.
Do you think that might necessitate smaller venturis?
From what Im seeing (Google), the 79 had a 7.5:1 CR.
_________________
79 SB Vert, in pieces.
Kadrons, SVDA. |
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andk5591
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2005
Posts: 16807
Location: State College, PA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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On your accel pump nozzles - not talking about siphoning - talking about dribbling. If the pump is adjusted incorrectly, you will get some fuel dribbling at idle.
_________________
D-Dubya Manx clone 1914. Ex wifes car.
Rosie 65 bug - My mostly stock daily driver.
Woodie 69 VW woodie (Hot VWs 7/12).
"John's car" 64 VW woodie - The first ever
Maxine 61 Cal-look bug - Ex-wifes car.
66 bug project - Real patina & Suby conversion
There's more, but not keeping them... |
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DrummerDaveB
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2005
Posts: 504
Location: Louisville, KY Area
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| andk5591 wrote: |
| On your accel pump nozzles - not talking about siphoning - talking about dribbling. If the pump is adjusted incorrectly, you will get some fuel dribbling at idle. |
I'll check again, but pretty sure there isnt.
_________________
79 SB Vert, in pieces.
Kadrons, SVDA. |
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spencerfvee
Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 3066
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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hi dave i think it might run better with smaller venturis but i dont know any one that makes a venturi smaller than a 28mm for kadrons . the only way to find out if your motor is ok is to do a CR test that would tell the story if the rings are wore out . if your CR is to low a motor will run slugish thats for sure one low cyl. will hurt power . that might be why your exhaust tip is black and your running rich . there might not be enought CR to burn the mixture in the cyl. some thing to check out . just trying to help you out dave these are things i would check out if my motor was not running right i could be wrong lol just something to think about spencerfvee
| DrummerDaveB wrote: |
| andk5591 wrote: |
| On your accel pump nozzles - not talking about siphoning - talking about dribbling. If the pump is adjusted incorrectly, you will get some fuel dribbling at idle. |
I'll check again, but pretty sure there isnt. |
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DrummerDaveB
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2005
Posts: 504
Location: Louisville, KY Area
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| Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| spencerfvee wrote: |
hi dave i think it might run better with smaller venturis but i dont know any one that makes a venturi smaller than a 28mm for kadrons . the only way to find out if your motor is ok is to do a CR test that would tell the story if the rings are wore out . if your CR is to low a motor will run slugish thats for sure one low cyl. will hurt power . that might be why your exhaust tip is black and your running rich . there might not be enought CR to burn the mixture in the cyl. some thing to check out . just trying to help you out dave these are things i would check out if my motor was not running right i could be wrong lol just something to think about spencerfvee
| DrummerDaveB wrote: |
| andk5591 wrote: |
| On your accel pump nozzles - not talking about siphoning - talking about dribbling. If the pump is adjusted incorrectly, you will get some fuel dribbling at idle. |
I'll check again, but pretty sure there isnt. |
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It isnt the exhaust tip (well, Im sure it is as well, but...), its the plugs that are black.
I get no oil smoke at any time.
But I guess I better do a compression test to be safe.. . .I guess that's a tool I need to go buy.
_________________
79 SB Vert, in pieces.
Kadrons, SVDA. |
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DrummerDaveB
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2005
Posts: 504
Location: Louisville, KY Area
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| andk5591 wrote: |
| On your accel pump nozzles - not talking about siphoning - talking about dribbling. If the pump is adjusted incorrectly, you will get some fuel dribbling at idle. |
Ok, I checked. There is no dribbling at idle, nor anywhere else in the rev range.
_________________
79 SB Vert, in pieces.
Kadrons, SVDA. |
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connor2010
Samba Member
Joined: April 29, 2012
Posts: 17
Location: middleport pa
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| what ever ended up being the problem |
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FreeBug
Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012
Posts: 4277
Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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| Posted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:23 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm also curious about the outcome...did it work out? |
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DrummerDaveB
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2005
Posts: 504
Location: Louisville, KY Area
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| Posted: Tue May 21, 2013 4:34 am Post subject: |
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I did find one of the venturis was slightly loose, but I tore into the metalwork and brakes on the car, so I haven't been able to drive it and see if it corrected the issue.
So...I don't have an answer for you. Sorry!
_________________
79 SB Vert, in pieces.
Kadrons, SVDA. |
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Alte Blechdose
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2012
Posts: 285
Location: North Cackylacky
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:02 am Post subject: |
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| Dave, Did you ever resolve this problem? Sounds alot like what I'm getting. |
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DrummerDaveB
Samba Member
Joined: March 25, 2005
Posts: 504
Location: Louisville, KY Area
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| Alte Blechdose wrote: |
| Dave, Did you ever resolve this problem? Sounds alot like what I'm getting. |
Unfortunately, I dont know yet.
I've got the floor pans out, so driving it is out. I likely wont know until spring sometime.... if Im lucky. I have a baby coming in January, so... 
_________________
79 SB Vert, in pieces.
Kadrons, SVDA. |
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Alte Blechdose
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2012
Posts: 285
Location: North Cackylacky
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| Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Congrats on the Baby. Floor pans, That sucks. I happened to be looking in the search and came across this post. I'm attempting to put Kadrons on a 2.0 liter bus. I have zero experience with these or this linkage. Doesn't seem to be rocket science and you'd think it can't be different in principle to any other dual single setup. I've looked at the videos and followed the directions.
Carbs spit and sputter under load. Fine at idle or when blipping the throttle. You drive it and it falls flat on it's face. I'm working with Miguel on solutions or what I may have done incorrectly. General consensus seems to be incorrect distributor. I'm gonna drop a 009 that I use as a spare for my bug in it and see what happens in the morning. I'll post back and let you know whats up. |
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Alte Blechdose
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2012
Posts: 285
Location: North Cackylacky
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Removed the original SVDA and put the 009 on. While it did improve the situation it didn't resolve the problem. Smooth as silk when lightly accelerating under load (driving) but falls flat on heavy acceleration. Still trying to resolve the issue but van went off for paint and body work as it is. I'm sure I'll be revisiting this again when it comes out of paint. |
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Mikedrevguy
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2008
Posts: 2303
Location: No. Idaho
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| Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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How's the sync?
How is it timed?
How are accelerator pump nozzles squirting?
_________________
74 1303 (RevBug): plan for German Look
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69 Bwajaja
"The wise speak because they have something to say; while the foolish speak because they have to say something." Plato
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Alte Blechdose
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2012
Posts: 285
Location: North Cackylacky
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| Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| Mike, pumps are squirting equal amounts of fuel. Timing is set to 28 degrees full advance on 009. I've synched the carbs from zero idle numerous times with unattached linkage, Throttle cable and so on. Both carb butterflies seem to be dead on when throttle blipped at idle looking down throat with mirror. Mixture is set to 3/4 turn on both. I'm gonna bump the 009 up and adjust the squirt for more fuel when I get over to the paint shop later this week and see how that works. |
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