25 hp Mufflers

[johnshenry]

Somewhere in this forum there is a pic that I think Mika posted of a 25hp muffler he has. It is the only picture I have ever seen of a correct 25hp muffler that was used in the factory, I can't seem to find it right now. I aspire to have one for my '51.

I recently bought the darker muffler in the pics below. It is not the same as Mika's, but it is close. The other one I bought a while ago, the more common single tip, VW logo'ed one. I have also since been convinced that VW did not use VW logo'ed mufflers in factory production based on the assembly line pics I have seen. I paid dearly for both these mufflers.

You will notice the darker one is missing the "low pressure" thin tube for the left side heat riser connection. The original design did not have this and was as the darker one is, with just a flange ported to the left side exhaust port. This is actually a very stupid design, as it insures there is virtually no flow through the heat riser, just alternating pressures side to side as the engine runs, limiting significantly the amount of heat produced in the center of the intake manifold.

I bought this muffler thinking that if I modified the gusset bracket on the tailipipe, and maybe the tailpipe itself I could make it very close to the original factory muffler. Hopefully Mika will drop in and post some pics of his and you can see the difference/similarities.

Has anyone ever seen a muffler like this dark one in the aftermarket? Obviously it is stickered with a 3x3x3 number so it s probably not some NOS part, but I was taken by its copy of the poorer design original muffler. Anyone else have one??

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John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[transportertalkman]

John, here is another style that believe shows type issued at the factory

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1951 Belgium Standard
1957 Ghia coupe
1960 Double Cab
1963 Ghia convertible
1964 Westfalia SO34
1967 Riviera Camper

[Suboval]

Here you go John.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...p;start=40
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It all works on paper.

There's two things we learn from history:
1.) History repeats itself.
2.) We don't learn from history.

[splitjunkie]

[johnshenry]

Yeah, I knew this was discussed ad nauseum a while back, thanks for looking that up Kurt.

I wasn't suggesting that my darker one was an original, but that it was closer to being of the original design. The one transportertalkman posted looks like an original, except that the L gusset on the tailpipe is rotated about 45 degrees.

My comment about no VW logoed mufflers used in production meant no logos on the ends.

I find it odd that they would have made an aftermarket muffler with the older, poor design, although maybe it was done to save cost.

So I am not sure what muffler to use on the '51. Both of these have some correct details... and some wrong ones....
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John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[splitjunkie]

I think that you should probably use one with the draft tube.

Your grey one is a bus muffler since it has the detachable tail pipe and no bracket. That would be easy enough to fix though.

As far as whether or not the mufflers installed at the factory had vw logos or not, I don't think anyone has come up with any definitive proof either way.
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Chris

You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld

[janerick3]

I believe this was discussed awhile back, but I think the black-painted mufflers came from a South African manufacturer during the early-to-mid 1970s. This same manufacturer exported lots of aftermarket exhaust systems to the US during this period, all painted black. They may have a strip of white plastic tape with red lettering attached, indicating country of origin.

A Spanish supplier was also producing single-tip 25/36 hp mufflers during this same period, but they were painted gray.

Perhaps Ernst found it cheaper to import 25hp mufflers than to do small-scale production runs in their own factory.
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Thanks,
Jan K.

[barnyardvw]

John, Just a couple of pics of a old Ernst muffler I picked up a few years back
at a swap here in the PNW. Hope it helps

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John Jensen
1950 11A
1955 113
1963 151
1958 113-28,000 orig. miles
1967 241
1968 Eriba Puck

[johnshenry]

Wow, that one is the closest I've seen yet to the original design John...
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John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[kaferdude]

This is not exactly on topic but I've got a muffler question. Any recommendations on salvaging an old 25hp muffler? The attached pic shows my now 30+-year-old muffler - still in pretty good shape, no rot. I'm thinking of blasting off the surface rust and then painting it with some hi-temp grey paint. I'm also thinking of doing the same thing on a NOS muffler I picked up a few years ago. Any thoughts? Anybody doing anything special to these things to make them last even longer?

Thanks,
Dan

[johnshenry]

Dan I have had good luck with media blasting solid, used mufflers and painting them with POR-15's Hi Temp paints. I have one with over 6k miles on it and the paint has not burned and flaked. It 'self bakes" on the muffler when run for the first time.

Dan, in your first pic, do I see a thin tube on the bottom of the right side heat riser flange???
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John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[52 split]

could one not ceramic coat the muffler. i may do one for my car, good or bad your thoughts?

[Terry Gaudet]

John,

I will be needing a single tip for my 5/55 Oval. If you are selling one if these let me know.

Best regards,

Terry
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Terry Gaudet

1950 Beetle Standard
1955 Canadian Custom
1956 Kombi w/SO23 kit
1965 Kombi walkthrough
1965 Double Cab

[Ivan Fuller]

Ceramic coating is the only way to go - can be expensive but it will always look as good as the day you did it. Almost ten years on some of my exhaust system bits.

[bwaz]

[kevm]

Is it possible to convert a later dual tip 36hp muffler to single tip, or is this not possible due to the baffles inside ?

Anyone ever done this ?

Thanks
Kev

[usariemen]

[ZwitterND]

Ya goes down to your local Menards, get some black stove pipe. Roll it & seam it. Find yourself some of those small diameter bus hubcaps, cut out the VW emblem from the center and weld them into the ends. Graft in the pipes from and old muffler. Throw a coat of POR gray on it. Iffin you was wantin to get fancy you can just rip the skin off an ol 36 muffler and wrap stove pipe aroun it. Done, next subject.
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Bill

[splitjunkie]

Jacek is making some great looking super early mufflers.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1308880

Pretty pricy but they look like they have all of the correct details inside. Not just an empty tube.
I wonder if he could be persuaded to make late split single tips?
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Chris

You know, a lot of these scratches will buff right out... Jerry Seinfeld

[ww2vw.com]

Hello,

Just would like to let you know that I'm working now on the split mufflers, and hope will have them in the offer in a few weeks.

best regards,

Jacek
ww2vw.com