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0to60in6min
Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2006
Posts: 3460
Location: OR & CA (Oregon/California)
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 Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:05 pm Post subject: |
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| I removed the hose from the tower and plugged it. Left the tower in place venting.directly to the air. |
you may want to put a tiny K&N filter on it so dirt won't get in the engine. |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10498
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Ahwahnee wrote: |
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
| Oh a whim, asked my VW parts guy (VM Autohaus, Burnaby BC) about this tower. Edit: I'm running a 2.1 He can get a new one... |
Let us know if he really can (have my doubts). The p/n -- 025115451 -- entered on that site did not find anything. |
As did I. 
One may have to be a dealer or register and be part of the "Community" to see the info my parts guy saw.
Spoke with VM again to clarify. They had just spoken with their contact about this part. Contact said: "2-4 weeks". Don't know if that meant manufacture date, shipping date or arrival date. For sure though, VM says they will receive the part. Pretty sure VM is dealing with: http://www.vw-classicparts.de/
btw, .....
Is a failing or failed tower more of an issue with the 1.9 in terms of it causing a vacuum leak? I realize the WBX PCV is a sealed system, but if one had leaky valve cover gaskets or.....
Since the 2.1 has a 5 mm restrictor in line to intake "S" boot, will a broken diaphram in the breather tower on the 2.1 be a moot issue from a vacuum leak standpoint?
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)
1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52522
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| Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Since the 2.1 has a 5 mm restrictor in line to intake "S" boot, will a broken diaphram in the breather tower on the 2.1 be a moot issue from a vacuum leak standpoint? |
As I posted before, installing a new breather on my ratty 83.5 was a waste. I suspect that installing one on a 2.1 would be a waste as well. The O2 sensor and the ECU are capable of correcting any change in the mixture caused solely by a bad breather tower. I would like to try adding the 5mm breather orifice to a 1.9 and see what difference that makes. |
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daneasley
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2012
Posts: 2
Location: Shenandoah Valley, VA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 7:52 am Post subject: Continue with O-Ring Replacement? |
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This feels like a silly question, but I'll ask anyway.
I have an '86 which seems to leak oil from the base of the breather tower. I suspect some deterioration of the tower itself based on oily residue in the intake elbow, but reading of previous threads, and NLA status of the tower, leads me to believe I should stick with the one I've got.
The vehicle runs fine - a bit of a surging idle when in Park which I suspect is due to a faulty TPS switch. I'm just trying to eradicate leaks.
I'm beginning to see hard plastic components grow brittle (Coolant level sensor popped out a few weeks ago.) Should I still replace the breather tower O-ring, or due I risk damage to the tower itself in messing with it at all?
Been lurking here for a year or so - thanks for much knowledge and wisdom! |
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Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 10257
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:37 am Post subject: Re: Continue with O-Ring Replacement? |
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| daneasley wrote: |
| ...I have an '86 which seems to leak oil from the base of the breather tower. I suspect some deterioration of the tower itself based on oily residue in the intake elbow... |
But may just be the O-ring at the base of the tower -- readily available and easily replaced. |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10498
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Since the 2.1 has a 5 mm restrictor in line to intake "S" boot, will a broken diaphram in the breather tower on the 2.1 be a moot issue from a vacuum leak standpoint? |
As I posted before, installing a new breather on my ratty 83.5 was a waste. I suspect that installing one on a 2.1 would be a waste as well. The O2 sensor and the ECU are capable of correcting any change in the mixture caused solely by a bad breather tower. I would like to try adding the 5mm breather orifice to a 1.9 and see what difference that makes. |
Just saw your reply. I should find out how to get notified of replies here.
Thanks for the info.
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)
1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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r.e.wing_fc3s
Samba Member
Joined: April 16, 2010
Posts: 603
Location: Vanagon Capitol USA: Bellingham, WA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:45 am Post subject: |
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i just got a lot of stuff from gunzl classic parts. the breather tower is not available through them. unless you have some secret method of accessing parts that the rest of us cant see...
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Reference Automotive: NW Washingtons Vanagon Specialist. (360)366-6965. referenceautomotive.com |
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10498
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| r.e.wing_fc3s wrote: |
| i just got a lot of stuff from gunzl classic parts. the breather tower is not available through them. unless you have some secret method of accessing parts that the rest of us cant see... |
I assume that was directed at me.
It's my parts guy that might have the secret method, not me.
But maybe someone is feeding him bs. I don't know. < shrugs >
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Spoke with VM again to clarify. They had just spoken with their contact about this part. Contact said: "2-4 weeks". Don't know if that meant manufacture date, shipping date or arrival date. |
So maybe it's not made yet, but there are plans to do so?
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)
1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 8514
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Continue with O-Ring Replacement? |
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| daneasley wrote: |
| Should I still replace the breather tower O-ring, or due I risk damage to the tower itself in messing with it at all? |
Replace the O-ring. I replaced it in my '90 back in December: 1) The mounting nuts were actually loose because, 2) the O-ring was not only hard as a rock, it had also shrunk. Replaced O-ring and no more oil leak.
_________________
~Kamz 
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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daneasley
Samba Member
Joined: July 19, 2012
Posts: 2
Location: Shenandoah Valley, VA
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| Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2012 7:01 am Post subject: Re: Continue with O-Ring Replacement? |
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| kamzcab86 wrote: |
| Replace the O-ring. I replaced it in my '90 back in December: 1) The mounting nuts were actually loose because, 2) the O-ring was not only hard as a rock, it had also shrunk. Replaced O-ring and no more oil leak. |
Thanks!
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1986 Westfalia w/ canoe and portable audio recording rig |
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turbo2cv
Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2005
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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I had a big hesitation off idle and suspect engine was breathing in the reserve of air in the crankcase, unmetered by AFM. Breathers can't be found currently.
I made a "dampener" to not let fumes travel that fast in there. The off idle issue seems reduced. I can better adjust idle speed and idle is more stable. I can blow through the hose, but not fast. Unlike VW's design, mine does not allow high volume of breathing at WOT.
Some elastic rope around some fuel line
Inserted in some old 12mm hose
then inserted in the breather hose
Hidden in there
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Vanagon Nut
Samba Member
Joined: February 08, 2008
Posts: 10498
Location: Sunshine Coast B.C.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:13 am Post subject: |
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| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
| r.e.wing_fc3s wrote: |
| ..... the breather tower is not available through them. unless you have some secret method of accessing parts that the rest of us cant see... |
It's my parts guy that might have the secret method, not me.
But maybe someone is feeding him bs. I don't know. < shrugs >
| Vanagon Nut wrote: |
Spoke with VM again to clarify. They had just spoken with their contact about this part. Contact said: "2-4 weeks". Don't know if that meant manufacture date, shipping date or arrival date. |
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Saw my parts guy yesterday. Nope. No breather tower. Not saying it won't be made at some point, but for now, I wouldn't hold my breathe, er, breath. 
Seems my parts guy was given incorrect information regarding this part. I simply relayed what I heard. Now back to your regular programming.....
Neil.
_________________
1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)
1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA
VE7TBN |
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jberger
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:11 am Post subject: |
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Thought I would share on this dated thread. I decided to look into the breather system as compared to the Subaru crowd and the hi-po type one crowd. I run a very high compression 2.4 water boxer that has very nice manners, idles perfect, throttle response etc... but does drink oil. Leak down tests are perfect... I am beginning to think that there is inadequate venting and oil separation built into our systems. The 2.5 Subies use up to 2 vents per valve cover (with oil separation baffles in the cover) and a standard PCV on the crank case. Pretty much all type one hi-po's run vented valve covers... heck, Porsche machined vent ports into their 914 heads. On top of that there are air\oil separators from various manufacturers sold for every high performance car out there. I believe the VW TDI crowd is also involved. I have read through dozens of pages of AOS's on STI, mustang and vette forums and will be fitting a similar system as soon as possible.
Regarding our breather towers... I pulled one off my shelf last night, installed a screw with gasket into the drain back hole on the elbow, clamped it to the bench with a gasket under the base. I then drilled a hole in the side of the tower near the base to simulate the crank case side. If I covered the elbow outlet and pulled vac on the tower.. the diaphragm closed and allowed the "case" to remain under vacuum, independent of the intake elbow until it was bled off to zero or had any positive pressure. As such, it works like a typical PCV valve... anything lower than atmospheric pressure and the valve closes. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52522
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| jberger wrote: |
| Thought I would share on this dated thread. I decided to look into the breather system as compared to the Subaru crowd and the hi-po type one crowd. I run a very high compression 2.4 water boxer that has very nice manners, idles perfect, throttle response etc... but does drink oil. Leak down tests are perfect... I am beginning to think that there is inadequate venting and oil separation built into our systems. The 2.5 Subies use up to 2 vents per valve cover (with oil separation baffles in the cover) and a standard PCV on the crank case. Pretty much all type one hi-po's run vented valve covers... heck, Porsche machined vent ports into their 914 heads. On top of that there are air\oil separators from various manufacturers sold for every high performance car out there. I believe the VW TDI crowd is also involved. I have read through dozens of pages of AOS's on STI, mustang and vette forums and will be fitting a similar system as soon as possible. |
Venting the rockers on a Subaru with overhead valves is a whole different ball game from venting the rockers on a WBXer with pushrod tubes. Search for posts by HAM INC on the Bay Window forum to see what happens when you vent the rockers on a VW boxer engine. |
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jberger
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Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| jberger wrote: |
| Thought I would share on this dated thread. I decided to look into the breather system as compared to the Subaru crowd and the hi-po type one crowd. I run a very high compression 2.4 water boxer that has very nice manners, idles perfect, throttle response etc... but does drink oil. Leak down tests are perfect... I am beginning to think that there is inadequate venting and oil separation built into our systems. The 2.5 Subies use up to 2 vents per valve cover (with oil separation baffles in the cover) and a standard PCV on the crank case. Pretty much all type one hi-po's run vented valve covers... heck, Porsche machined vent ports into their 914 heads. On top of that there are air\oil separators from various manufacturers sold for every high performance car out there. I believe the VW TDI crowd is also involved. I have read through dozens of pages of AOS's on STI, mustang and vette forums and will be fitting a similar system as soon as possible. |
Venting the rockers on a Subaru with overhead valves is a whole different ball game from venting the rockers on a WBXer with pushrod tubes. Search for posts by HAM INC on the Bay Window forum to see what happens when you vent the rockers on a VW boxer engine. |
Perhaps you could elaborate on Ham's posts. I searched all of his and all I found was that he told someone not to do it on a 79 bus's stock FI setup. He seemed to be referring to having valve covers vented to atmosphere. That would be a no-no but that is not what I'm talking about. My case will remain sealed with an air\oil separator being introduced prior to the case\cover vents entering the S-boot. |
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Wildthings
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Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52522
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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You always want crankcase vapors moving down through the pushrod tubes and not up through the tubes. If gases move up through the tubes that will keep oil from flowing down through the tubes and thus cause the rocker boxes to fill with oil and oil to puke out through the rocker vents.
The 411/412 system which I think is the same as the Porsche system used a check valves so air could enter the rocker boxes through the vents but could not go out through the vents, thus forcing the air to go down through the pushrod tubes. |
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jberger
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Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
You always want crankcase vapors moving down through the pushrod tubes and not up through the tubes. If gases move up through the tubes that will keep oil from flowing down through the tubes and thus cause the rocker boxes to fill with oil and oil to puke out through the rocker vents.
The 411/412 system which I think is the same as the Porsche system used a check valves so air could enter the rocker boxes through the vents but could not go out through the vents, thus forcing the air to go down through the pushrod tubes. |
The way I see it is that the stock breather only allows positive pressure to escape to the intake track. As soon as case pressure is anything less than atmosphere it closes until there is an overpressure situation. The case is not subjected to full manifold vacuum because the inlet is located behind the throttle valve in an area of relatively low restriction. As I understand it, the reason you would vent the valve covers to the breather (before the valve) is so the turbulence created by the 1/3 and 2/4 cylinder banks going in and out opposite of each other can be more readily distributed throughout the case. |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52522
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| Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2012 7:52 pm Post subject: |
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| jberger wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
You always want crankcase vapors moving down through the pushrod tubes and not up through the tubes. If gases move up through the tubes that will keep oil from flowing down through the tubes and thus cause the rocker boxes to fill with oil and oil to puke out through the rocker vents.
The 411/412 system which I think is the same as the Porsche system used a check valves so air could enter the rocker boxes through the vents but could not go out through the vents, thus forcing the air to go down through the pushrod tubes. |
The way I see it is that the stock breather only allows positive pressure to escape to the intake track. As soon as case pressure is anything less than atmosphere it closes until there is an overpressure situation. The case is not subjected to full manifold vacuum because the inlet is located behind the throttle valve in an area of relatively low restriction. As I understand it, the reason you would vent the valve covers to the breather (before the valve) is so the turbulence created by the 1/3 and 2/4 cylinder banks going in and out opposite of each other can be more readily distributed throughout the case. |
Give it a try and get back to us. |
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jberger
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Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:17 am Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| jberger wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
You always want crankcase vapors moving down through the pushrod tubes and not up through the tubes. If gases move up through the tubes that will keep oil from flowing down through the tubes and thus cause the rocker boxes to fill with oil and oil to puke out through the rocker vents.
The 411/412 system which I think is the same as the Porsche system used a check valves so air could enter the rocker boxes through the vents but could not go out through the vents, thus forcing the air to go down through the pushrod tubes. |
The way I see it is that the stock breather only allows positive pressure to escape to the intake track. As soon as case pressure is anything less than atmosphere it closes until there is an overpressure situation. The case is not subjected to full manifold vacuum because the inlet is located behind the throttle valve in an area of relatively low restriction. As I understand it, the reason you would vent the valve covers to the breather (before the valve) is so the turbulence created by the 1/3 and 2/4 cylinder banks going in and out opposite of each other can be more readily distributed throughout the case. |
Give it a try and get back to us. |
So I gave it a try. 8 months later, it works flawlessly. The Mann Provent separator does what it should, oil residue on the crank vent line and valve cover breathers.. 3/4" line running to S boot is BONE dry. As in, squeaky clean. You can also watch the action on the atmospheric valve if you work the throttle. It shows that once any pressure below atmosphere accumulates in the case, the valve closes. Really quite slick. |
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Altoona
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Joined: November 14, 2011
Posts: 596
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| Posted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| jberger wrote: |
| So I gave it a try. 8 months later, it works flawlessly. The Mann Provent separator does what it should, oil residue on the crank vent line and valve cover breathers.. 3/4" line running to S boot is BONE dry. As in, squeaky clean. You can also watch the action on the atmospheric valve if you work the throttle. It shows that once any pressure below atmosphere accumulates in the case, the valve closes. Really quite slick. |
Pics? More details? You vented the valve covers, yes? |
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