1977 Westfalia Slow start

[aok-samba]

1977 Westfalia FI 4 speed (not sure what size engine, different people tell me different things)

I'm really not sure what the deal is here. Used to start great, now it doesn't, regardless of cold or warm weather. I know that my Air Flow Controller is getting worn, but I don't feel that has much to do with how quickly it starts. If you listen, once it starts, it idles low, that's the Air Flow Controller, I believe. Hard to find a replacement for those. But my main problem here is the slow start.

- Battery tested, great!
- Replaced points, have an electronic ignition now
- replaced starter connections
- Checked grounds

Is starting like this going to be wearing out other parts?
Could it be the solenoid? (I have instructions on how to verify in the John Muir handbook, but not sure if that'd be wasting my time)

Anything helps! Thanks!


Link

[SGKent]

does slow starting mean that the engine turns over slowly when you turn the key?

If this is the case you want to monitor battery voltage as it turns over slowly. Batteries often will show good voltage sitting but drop when used.

If the battery voltage holds at 11.8 to 12V when you crank, next check the voltage between cables at the battery and see if it is the same. If it is, check the voltage at the starter post where the cable attaches and car ground. If it is still 11.8 to 12V then I would suspect the starter, the starter bushing, too thick oil etc. However my best guess is that your battery tests Ok under no load or a small load but it can't handle the engine.
_________________
Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).

George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."

Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"

[kkjellquist]

I just went through this recently....I discovered the tachometer I installed was wired to an 'always on' fuse and creating a parasitic draw on the battery. It doesn't take much!

Test the draw on the battery....you need a decent multi-meter and it's easy.

Here's one link on how;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF1gijj03_0
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1977 Sage Green Deluxe Campmobile - "Turtel"
(1978 2L FI, Pertronix, Hydraulic Lifters)

Turtel - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=561195

Pisgah Bus Rally - New Year's Day
http://pisgahbusrally.blogspot.com/

[aok-samba]

I'm sensing that the main culprit could be the battery, so I'll check that first.

@kkjellquist: Thank you! I will get that checked out first. I don't have a multi-meter but perhaps I should pick one up! I've played with them before and have almost killed myself. I try to stay away from that stuff, but might be handy to have.

@SGKent Basically as you see it in the video, it cranks for 5-30 seconds and then starts realllll gradually. Regardless I'll check that out for sure, thanks so much!

[Wildthings]

If it cranks that long before it starts then something is getting nice and hot. Feel around and find out what it is. When you say you replaced the connection, does that mean you used the temporary replacement cable ends. If so you probably have added resistance in the system and should consider replacing your cables with new ones.

Yes any one bad part of the charging and starter system will overload and shorten the life of the other parts. The slower an engine turns the higher the current draw and the more energy being wasted as heat.

[heerojyuy]

Is the ground strap from your transmission hooked up?
Surprising how much that little strap can affect things.
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1979 Volkswagen Bus - Daily Driver
2000cc
FI

[kkjellquist]

[merlinj79]

Like others have said, check all the connections at the battery, the battery neg ground where it bolts to the wheelweel, both tranny ground strap connections, and the connections at the starter.

Make sure they're all clean and tight. I wire brush them periodically and use di-electric grease to fend off corrosion. I agree that you might have a bad fitting on one of those wires but it should be getting plenty hot in this case.

As to whether the solenoid works, well it's kind of "all on" or "all off". If the motor is turning the solenoid should be fully engaged. If it's getting really hot maybe it has an internal short and is sucking up all the juice. But I'd expect it to get at least warm with all that cranking.
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Rick
"Pumpkin II"
Stock 2L FI '77 Westy
CA Smog Stuff

[aok-samba]

I thought I would post a reply, though this is totally late, but all of the above were to blame on the Air Flow Meter. You can pick up a rebuilt one, just gotta find the exact one (right amount of pins, correct year). There is a number on the part that identifies which is currently in there, and a couple of guides online will tell you which part exactly yours works with.

Can't believe how much smoother she runs!

[Manfreds78bay]

Nice work on the fix. Do you mind if I ask what kind of exhaust you have?
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1985 VANAGON GL Digijet

There is no spoon.

[aok-samba]

I'm not sure what kind of exhaust – how do I find out? :/

[Manfreds78bay]

[Ludwig van]

I'm experiencing a slow start issue as well, but only on the first start-up of the day. After that, it seems normal. I'm only using the bus to run errands, so subsequent shutdowns are usually short - no more than an hour.

If I turn the key to 'on' for 5 or 10 seconds before turning it to 'start' for the first time, the start-up is much quicker. (stock 1978 California-delivered FI bus)

I'm wondering if the fuel pressure regulator is losing pressure while the bus is parked for extended periods. I don't smell fuel, so I don't suspect a leak. Should the regulator hold pressure when the engine is shut off?

If I'm wrong in my suspicion, does anyone have any other ideas?
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'78 Sage Green California Westy 'Ludwig Van'
Our iPad e-book "Camping With Ludwig Van"
http://store.blurb.com/ebooks/356253-camping-with-ludwig-van

[Tcash]

Hi
There are some good pix in the Bentley Service Manual.

[Wildthings]

[Ludwig van]

Thanks for the suggestions, Wildthings. I need to use the bus while I address a problem in the daily driver, so I'm reluctant to take anything apart just now, but I'm sure I can find a minute to look at those grounds.
_________________
'78 Sage Green California Westy 'Ludwig Van'
Our iPad e-book "Camping With Ludwig Van"
http://store.blurb.com/ebooks/356253-camping-with-ludwig-van

[udidwht]

Ignition switch
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1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires

[Bala]

How old is your battery and how did you test it?
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1976 Westy

1966 Beetle

[SGKent]

[Ludwig van]

The battery is only a couple of years old and seems to be in good condition, although I haven't tested it lately. Cranking speed is no different from what I'm used to, it's just the amount of cranking to get the bus to start for the first trip of the day. After that, it's fine. The ignition switch is a little fussy, mostly related to the steering lock function. Sometimes, I have to turn the wheel to the right, putting pressure on the steering lock, to get the key to turn.

The big mystery is why this only happens on the first start of the day, and why leaving the ignition on for 5-10 seconds seems to correct it. I'll try it a few more times to rule out coincidence, but due to the nature of the problem, I only get one or two tries a day.

Is there anything temperature-related that might cause this issue, and go away if the ignition is left on for a bit before the first start?
_________________
'78 Sage Green California Westy 'Ludwig Van'
Our iPad e-book "Camping With Ludwig Van"
http://store.blurb.com/ebooks/356253-camping-with-ludwig-van