1977 fuel injected bay window fuel pump and timing issues

[Phishpimpin]

I'm guessing it's going to end with burnt valves! I found my massive vac leak. Does anyone know where to get replacement vac hoses at a reasonable price. Here was the smart thing that I did do while jacking around the afm. Made a mark at original location and counted revolutions. I'm dumb but not stupid;). I made it 70 miles to civilization. Now I can fix er up good yal!

[Wildthings]

Last I heard your FLAPS was a good place to buy a variety of hoses.

[78Kombi]

[Bleyseng]

[guanella74]

Dredging this thread from the dead, as I've got the exact same problem but don't want it to end the same way (I'd like to adjust it the right way and not just jack around with things).

The engine ('78 FI 2.0 all original) will start and idle fine with a screwdriver in the airbox holding open the flap. It will also idle perfectly without the screwdriver in there, if I get my wife to start the bus and I then hold the AFM wiper in a certain position, which is maybe 1/4 inch or so from where it rests.

Dwell, timing, etc are all dialed to spec. I can drive the bus as long as it's moving, and have had it up to ~50mph, but it WILL NOT idle at this point - dies if I'm not feathering the pedal or revving it like crazy.

Does anyone have beta for this situation? I don't want to start tweaking without hearing from the vets here first! Thanks,
_________________
- Travis

1974 Westy CampMobile - the OG!
1979 Transporter
1979 Transporter
1977 Transporter
1974 Transporter
1973 Transporter
1971 Westy

[busdaddy]

Sounds like a vacuum leak, if there's not enough left to suck the flap open the fuel pump won't run.
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[Tcash]

Take a look at the starting diagram by Amskeptic.
You need power from #50 on the starter to #86a on the double relay while your partner cranks the engine.
No power on 86a while cranking disconnect battery. Clean connections and retest.

Double Relay Article

[guanella74]

I did a quick check with propane for vacuum leaks, and didn't hear the engine increase RPM at any point, but I'll have to go back and be more thorough with it.

Tcash I don't think it's a Double Relay problem - it's brand new and everything works fine, I just can't get any idle unless I hold the wiper a bit CCW or hold open the intake flap with a screwdriver, then the idle sounds dialed.

I'll check for vacuum leaks again and go from there. Is the propane method just as good as using brake cleaner/carb cleaner, or could that be my problem?

Thanks,
_________________
- Travis

1974 Westy CampMobile - the OG!
1979 Transporter
1979 Transporter
1977 Transporter
1974 Transporter
1973 Transporter
1971 Westy

[Tcash]

Whoops.
Missed if you hold it open.
Vacuum leak
Aux Air Regulator (valve) needs cleaning.

Smoke tester.
Smoke Tester

Good Luck

[SGKent]

since it is an FI bus it needs fuel pressure which comes from a circuit that is controlled by the AFM flap. If the points aren't adjusted right inside the AFM they may not be closing until you move it a little further than normal. Try cleaning them and making sure they are open until the AFM flap moves just a small amount. Your fuel pump should come on at idle. You may be moving the flap just a little further which makes it come on.

The other possibility is that your idle mixture is too lean.
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[guanella74]

Guys, thanks for the help. I still need to fine tune the system, but I got it idling just fine now. I noticed that my Intake elbow to aux. air regulator hose was leaking at the S boot junction. The hose is a bit loose at the ends; ideally I'd get a replacement, but in the meantime I'll clamp it on both ends and hope that does the trick.

Thanks again guys!!
_________________
- Travis

1974 Westy CampMobile - the OG!
1979 Transporter
1979 Transporter
1977 Transporter
1974 Transporter
1973 Transporter
1971 Westy

[guanella74]

These are excellent!! Thank you for sharing (and inciting a bit of envy with the cleanliness of your engine compartment...). Nice work and great for reference.

I'm now trying to find the best and most cost-effective source for an LM-1 or similar analyzer so I can fine tune things and not cook my engine accidentally. Anyone have any beta on which one to get/what has worked for them?
_________________
- Travis

1974 Westy CampMobile - the OG!
1979 Transporter
1979 Transporter
1977 Transporter
1974 Transporter
1973 Transporter
1971 Westy

[Wasted youth]

I just pulled my previous post, because on afterthought, I did not think those pics were relevant to your problem. I can repost if you like.

I am not entirely sure you need an analyzer, but it would certainly put you into a higher league than most folks. I found that if I took the time to bring each component into factory spec, tuned it with a timing light to the emissions label and eliminated all weak spots (old vacuum lines, questionable wiring connectors, aged gaskets or seals) I had a great running bus.

Because my bus was sitting for twenty-odd years, it took a few good road trips for the Samba community to help me work out all the bugs, but in the end it was a pleasure to drive.

Do you still have your emissions decal

[guanella74]

Wasted, no worries either way on the post - and thanks for the help.

I do still have the sticker; I've also set all the typical items to spec - dwell @23 or 24 degrees, timing at 28 max advance with dist hose off, 7.5 idle, etc, and have replaced the following with new Bosch:

double relay
dist. cap
rotor
condenser
coil
plugs
plug wires checked - as new
fuel tank (as-new)
fuel pump
fuel filter
injectors rebuilt
all hoses

I don't seem to have vacuum leaks and I have yet to check the fuel pressure, but the engine starts right up even in 10 degree weather without having to touch the pedal, and seems to run out alright.

I just failed the emissions test for too high of CO, and I'm guessing it's rich, but I'm flying blind to adjust it without an analyzer it seems.
_________________
- Travis

1974 Westy CampMobile - the OG!
1979 Transporter
1979 Transporter
1977 Transporter
1974 Transporter
1973 Transporter
1971 Westy

[Randy in Maine]

You want the dwell angle to be about 47º +/- 3º

[guanella74]

Oops - forgot that my meter is for 8 cylinder engines so I have to double the number! Puts me in spec
_________________
- Travis

1974 Westy CampMobile - the OG!
1979 Transporter
1979 Transporter
1977 Transporter
1974 Transporter
1973 Transporter
1971 Westy

[Wasted youth]

Confirming that your idle problem is resolved?

[guanella74]

Yes indeed - thanks for asking. There was a hose that has backfired off at some point creating a huge vacuum leak.

Now my only problem is passing emissions - took 2 tests already, and failed both with high CO. First test it was at something like 4.5, then I leaned it out according to general recs in Amskeptic's post on the Itinerant forum, and second time it measured at 2.5, but still not in spec at 1.5. At this point I guess I'll keep leaning it out and see if that does the trick. Any recommendations?

Thanks,
_________________
- Travis

1974 Westy CampMobile - the OG!
1979 Transporter
1979 Transporter
1977 Transporter
1974 Transporter
1973 Transporter
1971 Westy

[Wasted youth]

I did not have any problems with mine. And, I am not knowledgeable about working through failed smog checks on these, so I cannot really help. Mine passed the very first time, but I am sure I was lucky. Anyway, here is my smog check sheet. This was based on all stock set-up, tuned normally. Only difference is it had an Accufire electronic ignition in a new distributor and a new exhaust system, including an Emico CARB 2 compliant catalytic converter.

Don't know if this really helps, but maybe you can use some of the info to help you figure it out.

[Randy in Maine]

If it were me, I would go back and check everything I had done so far since that is free to do......

I would start first with the plugs to make sure they are the good NGKs gapped correctly with no anitsneeze on the tips. Personally I like the triplegrounds ones. Inspect the wires and use yoru ohm meter on them to confirm that they are 100%. Confirm the dwell and timing is to spec.

Clean out the aux air regulator to make sure it is opening and closing correctly.

Looks for vacuum leaks. Sometimes you have to use a wrap of electrical tape or a zip tie to make those connections 100%. Are the injector seals good? How about the S boot? Temp sender II ohming out correctly?

Report back you results of the investigations.