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Adjusting valves
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shawnljphillips
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 5:24 pm    Post subject: Adjusting valves Reply with quote

am working on a newly acquired 74 bus with 1800 cc eng, dual carbs. has been sitting for a number of years, put in new fuel, new filter, plugs, wires, rotor and dist cap.

When adjusting the valves, I came across a c-clip just sitting around the intake pushrod?

Engine starts, backfires a fair bit and cant seem to get it to idle, any suggestions would be appreciated
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welcome!
did it look something like the one in this picture?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


As for the bad idle start looking for vacuum leaks, the line to the brake booster is a common problem (this assumes you already cleaned out the carbs and they just aren't full of crap).
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Millennium Falcon
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, you certainly have been a lurker on this site for a while Very Happy

I really don't see how a c-clip could have worked its way into the valve cover without accidentally being dropped there in the first place. You should be safe.
Edit...(well busdaddy's pic would explain it.)

I would really suggest at least doing a proper compression check on the engine before you start chasing your tail around with other issues on this unknown engine. You could spend countless hours adjusting the carbs, finding vacuum leaks, fixing exhaust gaskets, adj timing, etc, only to discover one of the cylinders has low compression and a leaking exhaust valve is causing the misfires.

It is honestly worth your while to get a compression tester and take it from there.
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shawnljphillips
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:35 pm    Post subject: clip Reply with quote

very similar but completely circular, no indents on the sides.

yes compression test is a great idea, when it warms up a bit it's not bad(carbs are non choke) just cant get it to idle well

carbs are coming off for rebuild as well.
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shawnljphillips
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:42 pm    Post subject: clip Reply with quote

forgive my ignorance , so what are we looking at in the photo with the clip?
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shawnljphillips
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:49 pm    Post subject: clip Reply with quote

by the way the clip was on the pushrod, just loose but actually on the rod.
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Millennium Falcon
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The c-clip removed itself from the valve tappet and slid down the push rod.

You should remove the rockers, remove the push rod, remove the valve tappet, reinstall the c-clip, re-install the tappet, push rod and rocker, adj valves, then do a compression test before trying to start it up again.
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shawnljphillips
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 01, 2015 8:21 pm    Post subject: clip Reply with quote

thanks, sounds doable :)

will post results/issues that arise, thanks for the help
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do read up on a job like this before digging in, the lifters that come out of a particular hole have to go back in the same one (no mixing) and the rocker assy retainer nuts can't be torqued more than 9' lbs. There's also a right way and a wrong way to install the tube retainer wire and since you are in there now's a good time to replace the O rings on the pushrod tubes.

If you do discover you have hydraulic lifters you'll want to set them accordingly, setting hydros to solid specs results in pounded out circlips. I suspect you have a 2.0 out of a later bus, what's the engine code stamped into the case down between the breather tower and the fan shroud?
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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shawnljphillips
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:12 am    Post subject: lifters Reply with quote

Engine number is AW002119

I was curious because hydraulics weren't stock in the 74. Engine was rebuilt I 2003 by just vee dubs (have the bills), then taken off the road and stored until now.

There is a sticker on the engine that states the gaps for adjusting valves and the y are the same as the manual states for the stock 74? Would they have put in hydraulics during the rebuild?

Planning on tackling this issue this weekend. Thanks for all the feedback, great support.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 10:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No gaps for adjusting Hydraulic Lifters.

Determining hydraulic or solid lifters

Boston Bob's history of Hydraulic Lifters

Vintage VW Training Film - Valve Adjustments Part 1
Vintage VW Training Film - Valve Adjustments Part 2
VW Valve Adjust.mov

Happy New Year
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shawnljphillips
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 2:48 pm    Post subject: push rods Reply with quote

ok, so I have pulled the rocker arm off, pulled the pushrods out, solid steel, checked with magnet. Could see that the circlip was definitely off the one lifter, now the question is how do I get the pushrod tube off so I can pull the lifter out and replace the clip?? Engine is 1974 1800 cc so rebuilder must have put hydraulics in. Also no wire in place to hold pushrod tubes as per manual.

Any help is appreciated.
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udidwht
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 3:42 pm    Post subject: Re: push rods Reply with quote

shawnljphillips wrote:
ok, so I have pulled the rocker arm off, pulled the pushrods out, solid steel, checked with magnet. Could see that the circlip was definitely off the one lifter, now the question is how do I get the pushrod tube off so I can pull the lifter out and replace the clip?? Engine is 1974 1800 cc so rebuilder must have put hydraulics in. Also no wire in place to hold pushrod tubes as per manual.

Any help is appreciated.


Lesson learned?

Do not go back to that shop for anything.

The push-rod pulls out thru the head from valve cover side. You may need to twist and pull to get it to slide out. Get the push rod tube wire before hand so you have it ready after putting everything back together.

Get some Viton o-rings as well for the tubes.

Just (1) reason why I never use hydro lifters in a bus.
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Last edited by udidwht on Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: push rods Reply with quote

shawnljphillips wrote:
ok, so I have pulled the rocker arm off, pulled the pushrods out, solid steel, checked with magnet. Could see that the circlip was definitely off the one lifter.

Now the question is how do I get the pushrod tube off so I can pull the lifter out and replace the clip??
Pushrod tube o-ring replacement

Engine is 1974 1800 cc so rebuilder must have put hydraulics in.

Also no wire in place to hold pushrod tubes as per manual.
Salvage Yards
Any help is appreciated.
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shawnljphillips
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the replies, unfortunately the tube got demolished in the removal process, my bad :) will need to replace, any thoughts on the telescopic ones that seem to be offered everywhere? Any reason why I couldn't replace the one tube with a telescopic and leave the others alone?

neither side has the wire in them so I will make sure that gets done as well.

The previous owner took it in for the rebuild, I just hope there aren't too many more surprises :)
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Usually we remove a pushrod tube using a pair of needle nose pliers that have the 90 bend to them. It slides out through the head.

Bottom line is that Type 4 engine s do not use those replacment pushrod tubes. Make sure you order up a set of viton PRT seals.

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Push-Rod-Tube-Type-4-Engines-Each-021-109-335C-p/021-109-335c.htm

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Silicone-Push-Rod-Tube-Seal-Type-4-021-109-345AV-p/021-109-345av.htm

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Silicone-Push-Rod-Tube-Seal-Type-4-021-109-349BV-p/021-109-349bv.htm
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shawnljphillips
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:43 am    Post subject: now onto the brakes Reply with quote

Well, got the lifter replaced, and the demolished pushrod tube, wires are now in as well, adjusted the valves for hydraulics as per Atwells advice, and bingo. Fired up immediately, lifters a little loud for a few minutes til they filled, then she purred like a kitten. Thank you all for the help, couldn't have done it otherwise.

Now onto the brakes, pedal is very stiff, almost 0 movement and very little braking action, though I didn't actually go very far. She has been sitting around for awhile so any thoughts on where to start would be appreciated.

1974 Bus
1800 cc (with hydraulics :))
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busdaddy
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's good news!
As for the brakes, pulling all the wheels and drums off any bus that has been sitting is always a good idea, you never know what you'll find. Don't go pumping the pedal when the drums are off but have a look to see if everything is moving freely. Usually hard pedal and no serious stop is a stuck caliper or two and likely a stuck cylinder in the back, you can try prying them all into the fully retracted position to see if they move.
Seriously consider just replacing all the calipers and cylinders as well as the shoes and pads and all 4 flexible hoses, it doesn't matter how well it runs or drives, if it doesn't stop it ain't worth sh*t.
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shawnljphillips
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:24 pm    Post subject: brakes Reply with quote

So the front wheels are off, new hoses, pads, and bleeder valves on order. The calipers are definitely stuck, so I removed them. Took the pads out, no back retaining plates??? Aren't they supposed to have them? Looks like a rebuild on the calipers will be needed, any advice is appreciated.
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