Introducing Project Wasserboxer 2500E

silverbulletuk · Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:48 am Post subject:

Thanks Greg, I did wonder about the cam/big end clearance as there's not much to start with on a 2.1!
I'd be pretty happy with a stroked motor on the standard 94mm bore but since I've got the parts it seems rude not to give it a go. The one thing that the wbx always lacked was enough stroke to give it a chance of making the kind of torque that these heavier buses really need, which is where Subarus and inline VW motors really score.
Because the syncro in question has 4.86 diffs and 700mm dia tyres (but standard ratios) the engine gets to 3500 before changing up a gear even when driving moderately, just to keep it in the green.
I'd definitely consider a fully counterweighted crank any unwanted vibration is bad news for bearing life and on steep downhills offroad the engine regularly goes to 5000, probably because it lacks enough stroke to generate sufficient engine braking.
As for the cam, factory ones are getting very hard to obtain now, so I'll be contacting Rocky in due course!
Ian
_________________
1986 syncro twin-slider rhd, 3.2S Oettinger wbx6
1990 SA Microbus - Supercharged wbx going in with UN-1 trans.
www.025motorsport.com

Steve Arndt · Posted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:55 am Post subject:

I have an 80x96 Rocky Jennings custom in my 87 Syncro. Lots of nice torque.

Rocky told me extra counter weights weren't needed if the stock rev limit was retained at 80mm stroke.
Steve

silverbulletuk · Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:23 am Post subject:

Hi Steve,

Does Rocky Jennings offer a choice of crank strokes and specifications? I will have to work this engine build backwards from the compression height of the Oetti pistons (33mm) and the available rods, so that decides the crank.

I have a friend who regularly flies out to the US and ships auto parts and cars regularly, so that's one less fence to jump.

I don't suppose anyone has contact details for Rocky?

Ian
_________________
1986 syncro twin-slider rhd, 3.2S Oettinger wbx6
1990 SA Microbus - Supercharged wbx going in with UN-1 trans.
www.025motorsport.com

boof1306 · Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:06 am Post subject:

http://www.rockyjennings.com/

boof1306 · Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 4:51 am Post subject:

33mm piston + 137mm rods(5.4") + 41mm crank = 211mm

tencentlife · Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:26 am Post subject:

I have deck at 211.86mm from CL.
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Steve Arndt · Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2013 9:28 am Post subject:

boof1306 · Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:09 am Post subject:

Yes I agree Chris. I get the .86 in the piston height. I would suspect the oettingers are 33.86.

tencentlife · Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 6:03 am Post subject:

5.4" = 137.16mm

I read typ. comp height at 33.7mm

0.70 + 0.16 = 0.86mm
_________________
Shop for unique and useful Vanagon accessories at the Vanistan shop:
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also available at VanCafe.com!

Please don't PM here, I will not reply.

Experience is death to doctrine.

boof1306 · Posted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 3:34 pm Post subject:

Fantastic Chris. I say that because I got .7 on the piston just using vernier calipers and was just assuming the .16 difference was my poor equipment/technique. What I don't understand is why the Germans (metric) would use an imperial measurement for their rods? I understand that the aftermarket scene being centred in the US goes up in inches. So are a genuine set of rods and an aftermarket set exactly 5.4". Interestingly Scat list the standard rod at 137mm or 5.394". http://www.scatvw.com/master/connecting_rods/
Is it possible the figure we are chasing is 211.7mm? I suppose all this is fairly unimportant to you now as your using 5.5" rods and decking pistons. Greg

silverbulletuk · Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:13 am Post subject:

I must apologize for the mis-information, that was a typo! The pistons I have are 34mm compression height (actually 33.95), so I suppose there is a small machining allowance in there or they are meant to run a closer squish/quench clearance.

I have been asking around my Euro contacts for a while now, in the hope of tracking down a genuine Oettinger 82mm crankshaft to go with these and in the last hour I have had an offer of a BRAND NEW one. Not welded or modified, the real thing made from special forgings. The downside is the asking price...the better part of 4k USD (@ 1.352 USD/Euro) before shipping to me in the UK Shocked

This is all turning out far too rich for me, as much as I would love to put an Oetinger 2500 sticker on the tailgate of my syncro. So I think I will be putting up an advert in samba classifieds before too long. I don't think the UK or even European market will be interested in such an exotic wbx engine, but someone in the US will certainly appreciate it in their van.
_________________
1986 syncro twin-slider rhd, 3.2S Oettinger wbx6
1990 SA Microbus - Supercharged wbx going in with UN-1 trans.
www.025motorsport.com

boof1306 · Posted: Sun Oct 06, 2013 4:13 pm Post subject:

....or buy a dpr 82mm.

silverbulletuk · Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 7:21 am Post subject:

There's a lot to be said for being on the doorstep of Europe... a friend (whom I now owe a huge, huge favour) made some enquiries about finding a crankshaft last October at a late-season bus meet in Germany. Initially all responses came back with "there's nothing available for any Oettinger wbx's" but then a chance conversation led to an introduction and then, after a lot of to-and-fro conversations from the vendor, an unbelievably wet & wild winter and yet more delays... last week I took delivery of a complete, genuine 2500E engine! Very Happy

Ex-Carat auto circa 1988 (all the hoses are original VW) and completely untouched, complete with engine cover featuring the all-important silver and blue sticker. In fact the only replacement parts seem to be the silencer, plug leads and the distributor cap dated 2007. The bus had sat for about 5 or 6 years due to a blown auto trans at 200k (km) and general rust, but the vendor was anxious that it was witnessed running before any money changed hands, so after a quick oil change and a fresh battery, it started without any dramas.
Needless to say the first thing I did once delivered was to remove a spark plug and poke a stiff wire down there and wind it over to check the stroke... 82mm. Phew!
So it's now earmarked for a full rebuild before being put in our syncro, which will release the used pistons and barrels as patterns for possible remanufacture. Plus I will then know exactly what goes into the mix to possibly make more of these engines.
Happy days! Very Happy

_________________
1986 syncro twin-slider rhd, 3.2S Oettinger wbx6
1990 SA Microbus - Supercharged wbx going in with UN-1 trans.
www.025motorsport.com

boof1306 · Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:05 pm Post subject:

Well done on your find. Some high quality 98mm high comp pistons with cylinders that require case machining due to their beefy spigots would be a very welcome part. I would also suggest that going with 22mm gudgeon would enable the use of some very nice T1 rods already available in the aftermarket. Greg

silverbulletuk · Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:37 am Post subject:

It's been a while, but I have finally got around to dismantling the engine and all looks very good so far:

http://s1103.photobucket.com/user/IanHolman/library/Oettinger%202500E?sort=3&page=1

I will be adding a few more pics as it progresses, I would also like to make a bigger volume inlet plenum too, maybe something like the WBX6 item... but a billet one circa 2000cc would be easier for me Cool

_________________
1986 syncro twin-slider rhd, 3.2S Oettinger wbx6
1990 SA Microbus - Supercharged wbx going in with UN-1 trans.
www.025motorsport.com

Steve Arndt · Posted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:48 am Post subject:

Pyle on shoptalk took the stock plenum and enlarged it. He split it at the seam and welded in a 1" strip of metal around then grafted it back together. This enlarged the plenum by about 20% or so, and shortened the runners to match/fit.

silverbulletuk · Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 6:54 am Post subject:

A little update:
I ended up sending one used original piston and barrel off to Omega and Westwood respectively for quotation and the ball is now rolling. Not cheap, but there is no point going cheap in my experience.
A pair of 2.1 cranks were sent to DPR for conversion to 82mm and have now landed back here in the UK.
Lovely, lovely work and money well spent! I am ashamed to say that I couldn't get the quality or spec for the $ price over here, even when allowing for the shipping.
I now have one leader customer who wants to take build #1 from me, hopefully this will gain some momentum as the year progresses.
I seem to be getting somewhere with the Oetti-style plenums too...
_________________
1986 syncro twin-slider rhd, 3.2S Oettinger wbx6
1990 SA Microbus - Supercharged wbx going in with UN-1 trans.
www.025motorsport.com

silverbulletuk · Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:33 am Post subject:

After all this time I finally got around to splitting the case on the 2500E:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Thats all genuine Oettinger work, not been opened since the day it was converted back in 1988.
_________________
1986 syncro twin-slider rhd, 3.2S Oettinger wbx6
1990 SA Microbus - Supercharged wbx going in with UN-1 trans.
www.025motorsport.com

Zeitgeist 13 · Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:53 pm Post subject:

Those are interesting rods. Would love to see pics of them, as well as the crank when it's all cleaned up
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

silverbulletuk · Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:02 pm Post subject:

As far as I can see, they are standard 025 rods with the little end reduced to around 38or 39mm diameter and a radius milled round the big end cap to remove some of the weight (and gain a bit of clearance)
The shoulder clearance on the rod bolts is pretty scary too but this one has gone the distance.

It is all pretty tight for space in there!
_________________
1986 syncro twin-slider rhd, 3.2S Oettinger wbx6
1990 SA Microbus - Supercharged wbx going in with UN-1 trans.
www.025motorsport.com


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Introducing Project Wasserboxer 2500E
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