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samm1
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 217
Location: Saskatoon,Sask.
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 Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:07 pm Post subject: Skills! |
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I see the melted sheath you speak of. Haven't cut it open yet but I will be looking into it. This ain't my first electrical f up. Had problems with ignition switch as well. Did same thing .  so far so good .
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17941
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Tcash wrote: |
| kreemoweet wrote: |
| Tcash wrote: |
| ... Fuse 1-2. |
What you're showing there are fuses 11 & 12. Check out Bentley manual, Electrical System, Fig. 3-1.
Note: In the diagram pictured the parking light fuses 1-2 are on the right. So left #12 to right #1 is the fuse layout in the diagram. The only way I can circumvent this problem in my mind. Is to view the fuse box in the wiring diagram in a mirror. I think the engineer did this just to mess with me!
70 fuses
God only knows what the OP has going.
More likely there wasn't any fuse protection at all due to miswiring.
This is where I was going as well. |
Thank You
Tcash |
YES!!!
the 1970 fusebox wiring is "reversed" you NEED to wire it according to the fuse buss (as in 3 fuses linked together, 2 fuses linked together)
so yes, it is a mirror image
and to the o/p.....glad you checked. just don't want to see a bus burn up because someone "kept fingers crossed" now you have the opportunity to fix it correctly
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 53188
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| you NEED to wire it according to the fuse buss (as in 3 fuses linked together, 2 fuses linked together) |
That's good advise for any job, never trust the artist that particular year, I always confirm the busses match up with the diagram.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 4145
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Tcash wrote: |
| kreemoweet wrote: |
| Tcash wrote: |
| ... Fuse 1-2. |
What you're showing there are fuses 11 & 12. Check out Bentley manual, Electrical System, Fig. 3-1.
Note: In the diagram pictured the parking light fuses 1-2 are on the right. So left #12 to right #1 is the fuse layout in the diagram. The only way I can circumvent this problem in my mind. Is to view the fuse box in the wiring diagram in a mirror. I think the engineer did this just to mess with me!
70 fuses
God only knows what the OP has going.
More likely there wasn't any fuse protection at all due to miswiring.
This is where I was going as well. |
Thank You
Tcash |
So what's the deal, is the Bentley manual incorrect? What is that "70 fuses" link from, and why should it be believed? It's more different than just having the numbers reversed.
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'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17941
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| you NEED to wire it according to the fuse buss (as in 3 fuses linked together, 2 fuses linked together) |
That's good advise for any job, never trust the artist that particular year, I always confirm the busses match up with the diagram. |
yep. I found that out building the 70, yet the 71 diagram has the fuse box in the correct direction
| kreemoweet wrote: |
So what's the deal, is the Bentley manual incorrect? What is that "70 fuses" link from, and why should it be believed? It's more different than just having the numbers reversed. |
the "deal" is look at the fuse box. some have a 12v feed that is bridged to 2 or 3 fuses. the images are "reversed" from what you would see if you were sitting in the drivers seat.
so most early bays have 2 16a fuses towards the right of the bus, looking at the fuse box. if you went all willy nilly plugging wires in not paying attention to the layout of the box, you would end up with the circuits wrong on the box and 16a fuses on the left side of the box.
as seen here
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/baybus_70.jpg
vs like seen here
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/baybus_71_fixed.jpg
both are correct, but you need to pay attention to the bridges between the fuses. note on the 70, the 16a fuses are on the left. that is 100% incorrect they should be on the right, and will end up there IF you follow the bridges between the fuses, which you can only see on the back side (really the front side) of the fuse box
confused yet? 
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12843
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:44 pm Post subject: 1970 wiring diagram mirrored image. |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
So what's the deal, is the Bentley manual incorrect?
Yes Fig 3-1 is not correct. It is mirrored.
What is that "70 fuses" link from.
It is from the wiring diagrams 68-70.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiringt2.php
From the owners manual.
1970 owners manual
Why should it be believed?
Believe nothing? Verify everything. That's my model!
It's more different than just having the numbers reversed.
How is it different? |
It has been awhile since I have dealt with this. Thanks for making me think.
Tcash |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52710
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| Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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One more reason I absolutely hate trying to figure stuff out using the early style diagrams.  |
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kreemoweet
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008
Posts: 4145
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:47 am Post subject: |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| confused yet? |
Well, yes. I'm just trying to find out if I should mark the Bentley '70 bus wiring diagram as erroneous, preferably with a correction note.
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| look at the fuse box ... the images are reversed |
I don't happen to have a '70 fuse box handy. I have my own '71, and a 73-79 box in my parts stash. There is nothing "reversed" with regard to them in the
Bentley, except I noticed that the little fuse box pictures in the current-track diagrams have the bussing/bridging shown at the top, rather than at the bottom as
it is in reality. I am trying to figure out how the '70 fuse box is actually wired in reality, as viewed in the normal fashion, which is the view the Bentley diagrams show
in most cases.
| Tcash wrote: |
| Yes. Fig 3-1 in not correct. It is mirrored. |
Do not understand. Fig 3-1 just establishes Bentley's generic fuse numbering scheme, which by definition, is "correct".
| Tcash wrote: |
| How is it different |
Aside from leaving out a number of loads, I guess the owner's manual diagram only differs in indicating S12 (=S1 standard) as "open" whereas Bentley has the rear int. light on it. Also the owner's manual diagram puts the brake warning lite on the S9 (=S4 standard) fuse, which provides the push-to-test power, but Bentley puts it on the
brake light circuit, from which it gets its normal operating current.
The 16A fuse shown at S1 in the Bentley surely seems like an error. Should it not be on S3, which has the rear window defroster (according to Bentley)?
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'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12843
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| kreemoweet wrote: |
| Tcash wrote: |
| Yes. Fig 3-1 is not correct. It is mirrored. |
Do not understand. Fig 3-1 just establishes Bentley's generic fuse numbering scheme, which by definition, is "correct".
Note: on Fig 3-1 for the 70 the Unassigned (acc). fuse is #6, But for the preceding years it is fuse #7. Whoops
Print the 70_wiring diagram
S1= Parking and side marker lights, tail light right, license plate light. Trace those on the diagram and put a #1 on that fuse.
S7= is blank no wires. Find that on the diagram and put a #7 on that fuse
S11= Interior lights, E-flasher system, buzzer alarm (door buzzer).Trace those on the diagram and put a #11 on that fuse.
| Tcash wrote: |
| How is it different |
Aside from leaving out a number of loads, I guess the owner's manual diagram only differs in indicating S12 (=S1 standard) as "open" whereas Bentley has the rear int. light on it.
S12=Open for subsequent installation of electrical accessories.
I'm guessing the rear interior light switch was an accessory (option).The radio and any subsequent accessories would have been hooked up here.
Also the owner's manual diagram puts the brake warning lite on the S9 (=S4 standard) fuse, which provides the push-to-test power.
On the wiring diagram the little black wire from S9 does go to the brake warning light.
The 16A fuse shown at S1 in the Bentley surely seems like an error. Should it not be on S3, which has the rear window defroster (according to Bentley)?
There are no 16A fuses in 1970, all the fuses where 8A.
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I take back, "thanks for making me think". I remember now what a PITA it was wiring the 70 fuse box. Using the mirrored wiring diagram and the incorrect fuse layout in the Bentley. Of course I went with the Bentley. It wasn't until I went to put the fuse cover on, I realized something was wrong.
Not wanting to be one of those PO,s I redid it.
Just kidding I'd do it all again if I learned something.
Tcash |
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samm1
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 217
Location: Saskatoon,Sask.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:08 pm Post subject: Tail light retro fit (early) |
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Old bulb socket was allways loose inside of housing. Drilled out original bulb holder and went to the local Napa and got new Grote Signal Socket fits like a glove! Picked up Ge nighthawk bulbs supposed to be a little brighter than factory's will see lol
Grote 84-1050:
Socket Repair Assembly, 3 wire socket repair assembly · stop tail turn park lamps.
RR-33 Special Billet Aluminum Socket
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samm1
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 217
Location: Saskatoon,Sask.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:17 pm Post subject: GE nighthawk 1157 bulbs. |
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You can defiantly see the difference in the tailight position.
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The Quaint Gypsy
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2014
Posts: 62
Location: Winchester, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:51 pm Post subject: Re: Problem Found |
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sometimes, when you close the engine hatch , that hatch support arm grabs the wires and messes em up, shorts em out and POOF..... happened to me more than once. I now make sure they can go no where near that hinge latch, whatever the think i that holds the hatch up..... |
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The Quaint Gypsy
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2014
Posts: 62
Location: Winchester, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| One more reason I absolutely hate trying to figure stuff out using the early style diagrams. |
I love early diagrams as all you have to do is follow the line... know color of wire at one end and the other and where it should be..
those 72 and on wiring schematics drive me cookoo... |
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samm1
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 217
Location: Saskatoon,Sask.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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That grey wire with the red squares on it I have no idea where it goes ! Maybe someone will chime in that knows the wiring.
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samm1
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2012
Posts: 217
Location: Saskatoon,Sask.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Yes Gypsy, I know what you say about hatch mechanism, I'm also missing my top roller too on the support rods.
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 53188
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| samm1 wrote: |
| That grey wire with the red squares on it I have no idea where it goes ! Maybe someone will chime in that knows the wiring. |
Have a look at the very top wire shown on this page, follow it to the right and then down: (click on the pic to rebigulate)
Are you sure you have the tail light wire connected to the proper terminal on that bulb socket?, are the brake lights even brighter?
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 52710
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| The Quaint Gypsy wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| One more reason I absolutely hate trying to figure stuff out using the early style diagrams. |
I love early diagrams as all you have to do is follow the line... know color of wire at one end and the other and where it should be..
those 72 and on wiring schematics drive me cookoo... |
Power at the top, ground at the bottom. No chasing wires all over the page and easy to isolate the one circuit you care about from the chaff. It takes a bit of learning to figure them out, but from then on its way easier, especially as the wiring gets more and more complex over the years. |
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 53188
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| The Quaint Gypsy wrote: |
| Wildthings wrote: |
| One more reason I absolutely hate trying to figure stuff out using the early style diagrams. |
I love early diagrams as all you have to do is follow the line... know color of wire at one end and the other and where it should be..
those 72 and on wiring schematics drive me cookoo... |
Power at the top, ground at the bottom. No chasing wires all over the page and easy to isolate the one circuit you care about from the chaff. It takes a bit of learning to figure them out, but from then on its way easier, especially as the wiring gets more and more complex over the years. |
Agreed, but the early ones do offer better clues as to where on the bus those circuits are located and how the wires are routed, I guess you can only fit so much stuff on one or two pages..
I did an engine swap from a 93 Nissan 240SX into a 68 nissan 510 last week, the diagram for the 93 was like the newer VW ones and I figured all of that out, but there were no wire colors on any of the circuits.........FAAAAK!!!, and it wasn't a simple one like the VW's either, it folded out to almost 4 feet long from the factory service manual  Thank Gawd for the internet, although it did reinforce how much I love the Samba, most of those posts on the Nissan forums are pretty retarded with no helpful information, had to shovel through hours of useless crap to find clues to which color wire did what,, grrr...
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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The Quaint Gypsy
Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2014
Posts: 62
Location: Winchester, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| hell, some PO wired my 70 according to the mix of a 70 and a pre 68... LOL and my fusebox, is a dark yellow, with some big silver relay plugged into it. What I have no idea.. does not show in schematic.... |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 17941
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| Nissan forums are pretty retarded with no helpful information, had to shovel through hours of useless crap to find clues.. |
X2. there is a bunch of good guys here for sure. I love the Volvo forums...holy chit. some people just should not own a car, let alone work on them
_________________
| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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