69 Squareback AT stalling question

[grnerd]

I purchased a beautiful type 3 squareback, and am trying to improve my mechanical inclinations with its relatively simple engine. The previous owner converted it from fuel injection to dual carbs.

My question is what would cause it to stall at intersections? If I put it into neutral, it will stay running, but it should do so in gear as well. I have adjusted the idle to what I think is pretty high, but it is still not high enough to avoid stalling.

I am suspecting it has more to do with the transmission than the idle, but before I start digging into that I figure I would seek advice here.

Any thoughts?

[Tram]

The points/ timing are off OR it's running too lean.
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[Donnie strickland]

First find out what your idle actually is. With the car fully warmed up, it should be 950 rpm, plus or minus 50 rpm.
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71 Elm Green FI A/T Squareback

[grnerd]

Thanks, I will look into it. They are Weber TPIO 34 ICT's.

http://imgur.com/a/WtKRG

[grnerd]

I wanted to cross post the response and advice that I received from another site. I am going to rebuild the carbs as soon as I get the kit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicAdvice/comments/3..._stalling/

[Bobnotch]

[grnerd]

Ok, here is a shot of the engine. I can upload those shots of the carb itself if you want.

[Bobnotch]

[grnerd]

Thanks for the tip. I will be pulling the carbs in the next week or so. Should I look for an alternative to the 009 distributor? I will do a search for a guide to installing the balance tube.

[reay]

My experience is the old automatics are not like modern ones. When idleing in gear it still wants to "push" the car. It's okay for short periods like stopping at stop sign, but at a long light you need to shift to nuetral.

It also seems happier idling around 1100.

You will also find that you still need to drive with two feet......
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Tom Reay
Nothing is standard o a Standard!
68 Karmann Ghia Sunroof / auto T345
66 Standard Microbus T221
66 1200a Standard 115 with factory ragtop

[Slow 1200]

there's no need to shift to neutral at every light...you will probably put a lot more wear and tear to your trans by doing that

[Donnie strickland]

[raygreenwood]

It puts zero wear on it leaving it in drive.

Yes....these "earlier" automatics are different from modern ones....but not that different. Mainly in control systems and overall tuning. The design of the driveline and what makes it work are very similar.

What is causing the car to creep is the designed in lock up pressure/rpm of the torque converter. Its an overall refinement of design thing.

In these transmissions the controls are 90% hydraulic. The only non-hydraulic control parts are the vacuum modulator and the centrifugal governor.

Because of these hydraulic controls....you have to have enough fluid pressure to overcome the unseating pressure of the springs in various hydraulic parts in the valve body. That fluid pressure is rpm related....and age variable as springs age and pump wears.

Add to that...because these engines dont have much torque....relative to most cars that had automatics back in the day.....its odd that they designed a torque converter with a low stall point (not really....because they went for smoothness of takeoff rather than quickness of lockup).
What is happenjng with the creeping is that you have some partial hydraulic lockup in the converter when sitting at a light.

This is a little worse on the carbed engjnes......because of lower vacuum signature at idle....coupled with a little hydraulic control spring weakness from age.....and the low stall point of the converter.

Also....just so you are aware.....there were several valve body part #s. I believe the automatic valve body on carbed engines had different calibration than those for the fuel injection...so if that car originally had EFI...its going to shift diffetently with carbs. Ray

[Rex lucy]

I agree with all the above in addition i will say things have to be right in valve adjustment, timing , plugs , plug wires, vacuum leaks etc. Mine automatic would not idle correctly until i had i had done all those things in addition to using a syncro tool. i would think i had it set right until in gear and awe sh... bobnotch says use syncro tool on left carb first. i did it works.
I would bet not one one in 109 vw nuts could correctly set twin carbs without a syncro tool.

[Donnie strickland]

[reay]

Nice explaination Ray -

In my case I'm breaking in a new motor, and have a thoroughly gone through AT. As they loosen up and get happy, I probably won't be shifting to neutral as much.

I have to say part of it is I'm getting use to the Automatic as well and just have this fear of stalling and having the battery die.....

Carb sync made a huge difference, but I did cheat it a little and used the linkage adjustment on the left carb. I also used hose clamps on the vacuum lines. I think that made a difference too.
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Tom Reay
Nothing is standard o a Standard!
68 Karmann Ghia Sunroof / auto T345
66 Standard Microbus T221
66 1200a Standard 115 with factory ragtop

[Mike Fisher]

My stock '69 FI/AT never stalls. I just use the brakes, so it doesn't creep like every other automatic transmission in Drive. Dual carburetors will be harder to get set-up with an AT. Air-Cooled Head said it only took him 20 minutes to add a balance tube to his aluminum carburetor manifolds, so you can do that while you are waiting for the carburetor kits.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=642018
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69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold

Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey

[raygreenwood]

[Slow 1200]

I'm running a FI modulator on a carb car (original euro-spec), I did have to adjust it a tiny to get the shift points just right, it runs great now.

And yes, adjusting idle speed can be a little trickier on a carbed auto, but once you get it right it never stalls or creeps too much (it always creeps a little bit), 1100 rpm is definitely too high, that's for sure!

On the other hand, the valve bodies are matched to the governors, I have a whole FI auto trans for parts, one day I might dig into it to see what the differences are.

[raygreenwood]