| Author |
Message |
GTIII86
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2015
Posts: 11
Location: Chicago
|
 Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:41 pm Post subject: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
 |
|
Noob here - first post so please don't be too hard on me. I promise I read the forum rules and tried to search/lurk prior to posting but didn't find anything. Please feel free to link me to an existing thread or elsewhere if it's out there.
I'm going to look at a 1986 with a 2.1L, water-cooled engine, with AC. Stock original with about 125K on the motor. There is a slight whine (I'm told, haven't heard it myself yet) from the motor at times. I'm thinking it could be the bearings on the AC compressor but have no real basis for this hunch.
Any suggestions on some questions I should ask or particular things I should look for (powertrain related) when I go to check out the vehicle?
Any rough ballpark on what a full engine rebuild might cost? Given the mileage I'm assuming this will need to be done eventually anyhow and I just want to have an idea on what 'worst case' might be prior to pulling the trigger on my first Vanagon.
Thanks! |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
mjanderle
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2015
Posts: 175
Location: Madison, WI
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:52 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
|
|
Last time I dealt with a whine it ended up being a failing water pump.
_________________
1976 BMW R90/6
2004 BMW R1150GSA
2019 Toyota Tacoma TRD OR
1987 VW Vanagon Wolfsberg Edition, Westfalia Weekender
Gone but not forgotten, 1976 Toyota Land Crusier FJ40
Déjà-nesia - Having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this s@*t before. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Merian
Samba Member
Joined: January 04, 2014
Posts: 5212
Location: Orygun
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
|
|
or even just a belt
but you are right to use the cost of a repl. engine or full rebuild to negotiate prices
Vanistan, GoWesty & 10 cent ll offer repl. motors with prices posted on web pages
don't forget to check carefully for rust
Last edited by Merian on Wed Dec 09, 2015 10:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32988
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mjanderle
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2015
Posts: 175
Location: Madison, WI
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
|
|
| mjanderle wrote: |
| Last time I dealt with a whine it ended up being a failing water pump. |
Take a long screw driver and while the engine is running place the metal end against different components (water pump, alternator, etc..) and put the handle end against your ear. You can track down whines, clicks, and rattles pretty easily this way.
_________________
1976 BMW R90/6
2004 BMW R1150GSA
2019 Toyota Tacoma TRD OR
1987 VW Vanagon Wolfsberg Edition, Westfalia Weekender
Gone but not forgotten, 1976 Toyota Land Crusier FJ40
Déjà-nesia - Having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this s@*t before. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ahwahnee
Samba Member
Joined: June 05, 2010
Posts: 10305
Location: Mt Lemmon, AZ
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
|
|
Cheap & effective - a mechanic's stethoscope also works well (and possibly safer):
http://tinyurl.com/o5vbdhx
Rebuilds probably start around $5,300 installed from one of the better sources. That is for the basics - the sky's the limit if you crave more.
Okay - I finally worked out what a 'blet' is. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanagonjr
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3674
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:22 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
|
|
On rebuild costs:
$4,600 on up from Vanistan (Excellent Source) http://www.vanistan.com/Vanistan/performance_waterboxers.html
Probably similar from Rocky Jennings (Excellent Source) http://www.rockyjennings.com
and $4,300 on up from Go Wesyy
http://www.gowesty.com/product-details.php?v=Vanagon&id=24110&type=Mechanical
There are some lower cost options, but personally, it would be of these for me, but I know there are some other good sources that I am not as familiar with.
There would be shipping costs, including your core out to them, and there are other items you are going to replace at the same time - I'd budget $1,000 for shipping and these other items.
I think you are fine for a while, but I recommend having an oil pressure gauge - this is a good kit for such: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1381302
_________________
John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
Complete SA Grill Set-up for sale!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2748907
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:52 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
|
|
I just wanna know how from a whine, you start setting yourself up for a new engine.
Interesting stuff.
Must be due to global warming.
_________________
T.K. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GTIII86
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2015
Posts: 11
Location: Chicago
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 9:14 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
|
|
Thanks everyone, super helpful!
@Terry - wasn't suggesting the "whine" indicated a new engine was needed. Sorry if that's how you read it. Just wanted to have some idea of what worst case scenario was since I'm just learning about these vans and this one has plenty of miles on its 30 yr old motor. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
?Waldo?
Samba Member
Joined: February 22, 2006
Posts: 10132
Location: Where?
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
|
|
The engine is a small part of the 'worst case scenario'
_________________
I am a high-functioning autistic into VW diesels and Vanagons along with other things that are unrelated to this site. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tom Powell
Samba Member
Joined: December 01, 2005
Posts: 4852
Location: Kaneohe
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:03 am Post subject: Re: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
|
|
| mjanderle wrote: |
| Take a long screw driver and while the engine is running place the metal end against different components (water pump, alternator, etc..) and put the handle end against your ear. You can track down whines, clicks, and rattles pretty easily this way. |
| Ahwahnee wrote: |
Cheap & effective - a mechanic's stethoscope also works well (and possibly safer): ...
Okay - I finally worked out what a 'blet' is. |
A piece of vinyl or rubber hose works well also.
A blet is somethang you were aroond your swait.
Aloha
tp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanagonjr
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 3674
Location: Dartmouth, Mass.
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 5:26 am Post subject: Re: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
|
|
| GTIII86 wrote: |
Any suggestions on some questions I should ask or particular things I should look for (powertrain related) when I go to check out the vehicle?
|
Here is a buyers guide:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568164
However if someone showed up with this list, I would not be surprised if the seller was turned off, especially in many places they will get plenty of interested parities in "That VW bus you have for sale".
You should ask if the heads have ever been off the engine and when the coolant was last changed, while observing the color of the coolant (overflow tank access behind the flip-down license plate. Check the color of the coolant. If it is green and you get the impression that the coolant was changed at a regular interval like every 2 years, it is likely that it head gaskets will be required in the future.
These engines are known to have the head gaskets leak - some did so at early ages. To fix those at a shop is generally used to be $2,000 - $2,500 job assuming that new heads will be needed - I have no idea if the cost is different today. You will likely here from several people that they have 200,000+ miles on original heads. For every one of those there are at least 10 (100?) that have had to have their head gaskets (Actually seals) replaced. So unless the coolant has been changed at regular intervals its entire life, figure there is a head job in the cuter, if it has not been done.
At that time, the cooling system would be refreshed- new radiator and fan resistor for sure and the plastic tubes under under the van going to the radiator could very well need replacing due to the metal ends of them "walking out". That could very well be another $1,000 (or more) at a shop with parts included.
So on that note - ask if if any of the coolant pieces have been replaced - the radiator, the plastic pipes under the van and the plastic coolant manifold.
The manifold can be seen on the bottom of this page http://www.van-cafe.com/home/van/smartlist_667/connectorsjunctionspipes
Note the replacement metal components for the various plastic pieces in the coolant system. These are now getting old and needing replacement.
The manifold is on the passenger side, ahead of the engine, just below the "fire wall"
Some head info: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=286798
The bottom line is that vehicle are getting old, even though the mileage on your example is not too great. One key item that makes these vans different than a 30 year old MG or "classic car", is that most with the MG are going to the local car shows, ice cream and our for a Sunday drive. IF the alternator goes out, they limp home or get a short tow. (except my friend who really tours in his MGB-GT).
With the Vanagon, you are getting it to travel. That means that you, eventually, need to go through every system. Cooling system (which IS more complex than any other car) has many plastic pieces that need to be replaced, Radiator is now due, the gas tank will need to be dropped and hoses replaced, fuel lines replaces (1st thing), electrical grounds cleaned, coil replaced, Transmission oil changed, etc,
See this thread for details http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=457174
As you might see at this time, you need a fair amount of money in reserve to throw at the van ager purchase. IF you are not doing most of the above yourself, it gets expensive pretty fast.
In conclusion, there are many here far more qualified to give you advice than me (the guy with no engine in his van), but I believe what I said above to be pretty fair.
_________________
John - 86 Wolfsburg Westfalia "Weekender"
Flint reversed 1.8T W/Passat 5-Speed
Complete SA Grill Set-up for sale!
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2748907
FAQ thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=525798 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32988
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
morymob
Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007
Posts: 4683
Location: east-tn
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:16 am Post subject: Re: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
|
|
| My favorite noise chaser is a 1/2" 3ft wooden dowel rod, u can touch almost all needed parts on a wbx, if no cooant leaks, weeps underneath 'when was coolant changed' not a issue now as u would need to do your own change insuring it's fresh &to correct temp level.P.s.pumps , water pumps, alt bearings my 1st guess, loosen belt if u can to totally eleminate those. Being able to let eng get up to norm tempswould be important too so heaters, temp guage & also fact these engines usually run decent until temp 2 sensor switches oxy sensor into use, other hot problems may show up then, as usual no warranty offered at this time. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mjanderle
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2015
Posts: 175
Location: Madison, WI
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:29 am Post subject: Re: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
|
|
| djkeev wrote: |
OP.....
I notice that you are in "Chicago", granted a big place but you might contact TK who is also in "Chicago".
There are not many people who know Better than he on what to look for on a Van before purchase.
He may be busy or not interested but worth the try for a No nonsense honest PPI........
Dave |
TK =
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/profile.php?mode=...b773d0eeff
_________________
1976 BMW R90/6
2004 BMW R1150GSA
2019 Toyota Tacoma TRD OR
1987 VW Vanagon Wolfsberg Edition, Westfalia Weekender
Gone but not forgotten, 1976 Toyota Land Crusier FJ40
Déjà-nesia - Having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this s@*t before. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Yondermtn
Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2007
Posts: 616
Location: Illinois
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 6:54 am Post subject: Re: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
|
|
This must be in reference to the van that just popped up on Chicago Craigslist. Looks like someone bought it.
_________________
1977 Westfalia 2.0FI 4spd
1990 Multivan 2.1 Auto |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:12 am Post subject: Re: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
|
|
That 86 looks like someone took the initiative to have it detailed--looks pretty straight, clean for sure.
As always, I think the guy is outa his mind with the asking price, but se la ve'.
_________________
T.K. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mjanderle
Samba Member
Joined: March 20, 2015
Posts: 175
Location: Madison, WI
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:18 am Post subject: Re: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
|
|
Sorry, off topic but...while perusing the other Vans in CL in Chicago-area this one popped up.
We got a cooker folks...
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/pts/5338281772.html
_________________
1976 BMW R90/6
2004 BMW R1150GSA
2019 Toyota Tacoma TRD OR
1987 VW Vanagon Wolfsberg Edition, Westfalia Weekender
Gone but not forgotten, 1976 Toyota Land Crusier FJ40
Déjà-nesia - Having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this s@*t before. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Terry Kay
Banned
Joined: June 22, 2003
Posts: 13331
|
| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:34 am Post subject: Re: 2.1L Engine Whine, Rebuild Cost |
|
|
That guy has had that Van listed for a long, long time.
Someone needed the L/H side since it was first listed--and not too long ago either.
_________________
T.K. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32988
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
