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jlg2000
Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2015
Posts: 8
Location: Portland, OR
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 Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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Not sure - based on Lemoncove's thread and discussion ( http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=568718 ) I went ahead and got the 17904 from the beginning.
I've only just gotten to my idle and a quick "around the block", so it's still pretty fresh. Just hearing it purr at all is music to my ears!
Thanks to Jim and to the Samba community - yall have provided an amazing trove of information and made this a great process.
Happy Thanksgiving |
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Bassyaks
Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2010
Posts: 1150
Location: S.E. Connetitcut
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 5:18 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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Let us know when your take her around the block, I interested on how loud the exhaust is.
The weather should be good for a few days, good time to finish it up. |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 6:24 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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Unless "sound" or "noise" descriptions are also qualified by a dB meter, they are subjective and mean absolutely nothing.
http://decibel-meter.com/ |
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Franagon
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2009
Posts: 228
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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Now were talking , I agree with you, the lighter Syncro Tin tops and 2wd vans are awesome with the Zetec, but just the contrary with the Synco Weekender or Westys, the power curve is wrong.
Mine with 215 75 15" tires running 65mph the engine rpm is 3500, the Zetec has a flat spot between 3000 and 4000 rpms , so for the van to run at that speed comfortably it either needs a turbo, cam change or gear change ( which is out of the question for me) it shines starting around 4200rpm and above which puts it around 80 mph.
A little research to change the power curve is needed. |
This is interesting. I run 215/60-16 on my 84 Westy (2WD 1.9), and I think it drives great. The handling gained and crosswind handling was amazing. I wish I added those wheels and tires sooner. I have seen 2.1 Westys with 215/65-16's (granted not a huge change) and I like that size and fit to the van. I was thinking of going to the 65 series tire and also gearing the transmission to lower highway RPM's. I guess I just need to wait and see when I do the conversion? I am in RG6. It seems going from about 80+ hp to 130 hp would take care of a little adder on tire diameter. My cruise RPM now is about 3800 rpm. I realize that will be the same, no matter what engine is back there. So, anywhere between 3000 and 4000 RPM the van will be a dog!? I find that kind of hard to believe, but I am not an expert on power curves, etc. Also, I am expecting to keep that cruise RPM and speed up mild grades. Am I thinking about that the wrong way? This all does not give me the warm and fuzzies  Can someone lend some guidance here?
_________________
84 Westy Wolfsburg Manual - RG6 Bostig |
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bostig
Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 236
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| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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| insyncro wrote: |
Unless "sound" or "noise" descriptions are also qualified by a dB meter, they are subjective and mean absolutely nothing.
http://decibel-meter.com/ |
Actually a DB meter can help, but unless you're also reading where in the spectrum it is, it's also of limited value. It's like only knowing torque, and not where in the powerband it is. It matters greatly to perception.
In addition, new mufflers of this style with roving will reach their max attenuation after about 5k miles. Until then they are audibly "tinnier" than they will be eventually after carbon build up on the roving. |
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bostig
Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2006
Posts: 236
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| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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| Franagon wrote: |
| This all does not give me the warm and fuzzies Can someone lend some guidance here? |
Yeah, it's anecdotal, which is the gospel of the samba (not a surprise, most users have experience with one or a couple setups, not hundreds). Don't worry. Just listen to me and not the samba and you'll be fine like the many hundreds of others. 130HP (if you're actually making it because things are running correctly and you followed instructions and got everything verified as running right with me) is quite a lot better than 90. Bigger tires kill acceleration much more than people understand and most think horsepower=acceleration which is a gross simplification. For MPGs (driving speed&wind, grade&weight, then ride height are the order of major impacts on mpgs in vanagons, bigger tires hit #3), stick to stock on tires, and gearing and have no fear. If you want to go bigger, you can, but too big and you'll hate it. Also I don't recommend those BFG AT. Look nice, not great value.
Jim |
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thasty07
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2014
Posts: 310
Location: Bend, OR
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| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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[quote="bostig"]
| Franagon wrote: |
| This all does not give me the warm and fuzzies Can someone lend some guidance here? |
Care to elaborate? |
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Bassyaks
Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2010
Posts: 1150
Location: S.E. Connetitcut
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| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 7:45 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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Guys all my bitching about no power may be for naught.
I purchased a motor which was stored indoors for maybe 13 years, and it was said to have 4000 miles on it. After completion the engine fired up immediately and idled great. After about 600 miles I took a compression test, 3 cylinders were 180-185 and 1 was 45 psi. with 80% leakage.
I removed the head and inspected it, it was like new, so that left the cylinder, I filled the cylinder with carb clean and it held, however when I moved the piston up and down I noticed a ring of rust coming up along the edges of the piston. After inspecting the bad cylinder carefully I notice a ring in the bore that was about 3/4 of the way down,.
Here's what I surmised.
13 years ago the engine was put away with the #1 cylinder valves opened and all of the others closed, over the years a surface rust had built up, after running the engine for a few miles the rings cleaned off the rust, but being 3/4 of the way down some of the rust built up in the piston ring lands sticking the rings and allowing the blow by. Hopefully a few hours of soaking in PB and carb clean, with a little rotation the rings will loosen up
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LemonCove
Samba Member
Joined: July 29, 2010
Posts: 324
Location: Henderson, NV
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| Posted: Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:14 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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| bostig wrote: |
Actually a DB meter can help, but unless you're also reading where in the spectrum it is, it's also of limited value. |
As usual, you're spot on Jim 
I used a research grade db meter and did some comparative "loudness" testing, hoping to publish some objective numbers. I measured 3' from the exhaust tip as well as in the cabin while cruising on the freeway. While there were some differences, the subjective ear is a better judge of "perceived quiet" than the sound level meter. Comparing the Magnaflow and the 17904 for example, it's all about frequency. To my ear the 17904 was much quieter, especially in the cabin while cruising at speed - yet the db difference was not really significant at any of the 3 frequency spectrums I could choose on the sound level meter. Of course, in the cabin you're not just measuring the exhaust note . . . you're also measuring the cumulative road noise (wind, tires, tranny, etc). But clearly the Magnaflow is a "throatier" more aggressive sounding muffler.
The "Bostig spec Walker" and the 17904 were comparable to my subjective ears, but I preferred the 17904 based upon clearances and overall cost (including a separate tip needed for the 17904).
So, in search of a quiet cabin? There may be a quieter muffler out there that will fit easily, but you may be better off soundproofing the interior . . . that's the main improvement I made in making my cabin quieter. Most of the interior (behind dash, inside doors, floors etc are covered in sound damping material (hushmat) which also has a radiant barrier benefit.
My experience . . . please share your better "mousetraps."
_________________
'88 Bostig Westy |
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thasty07
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2014
Posts: 310
Location: Bend, OR
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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| bostig wrote: |
Also I don't recommend those BFG AT. Look nice, not great value.
Jim |
This is what I meant to elaborate on, I have lots of van peoples out here in the PNW that love em. |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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| thasty07 wrote: |
| bostig wrote: |
Also I don't recommend those BFG AT. Look nice, not great value.
Jim |
This is what I meant to elaborate on, I have lots of van peoples out here in the PNW that love em. |
I have owned 3 sets of that tire either in the now NLA 14" size or 215/75/15 size.
My average price per tire mounted and balanced was $140.
My average distance traveled per set was 57,800 miles.
Great bang for the buck 
I check my pressures and alignment often  |
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thasty07
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2014
Posts: 310
Location: Bend, OR
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 4:17 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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| insyncro wrote: |
| thasty07 wrote: |
| bostig wrote: |
Also I don't recommend those BFG AT. Look nice, not great value.
Jim |
This is what I meant to elaborate on, I have lots of van peoples out here in the PNW that love em. |
I have owned 3 sets of that tire either in the now NLA 14" size or 215/75/15 size.
My average price per tire mounted and balanced was $140.
My average distance traveled per set was 57,800 miles.
Great bang for the buck
I check my pressures and alignment often |
Agreed, as soon at the AT tires we have on the van wear out, Im going with those. The KO2 apparently has a 10ply sidewall, much nicer for the lava rock we see here.
And my Bostig likes them (Had to toss in the bostig comment so we are still on topic  ) |
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thasty07
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2014
Posts: 310
Location: Bend, OR
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 7:50 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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Heres just a general question for those who have had their install done for a while.
What does your gas pedal feel like.
I have noticed mine sticks right when I depress it, if its in a low gear it really jerks the van. I have looked at the throttle body and it looks free of debris. When I operate the throttle by hand at the engine, it also feels very stiff to open but then is smooth after that.
Anyone else experience this? I have cleaned the throttle body before and it had no effect.
So now, maybe the spring is too stiff?
Curious if anyone else has experienced this. |
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Bassyaks
Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2010
Posts: 1150
Location: S.E. Connetitcut
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:14 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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Check your cable maybe it was too close to the exhaust. Maybe too many bends, On the syncro I ran it down over the starter and than into the factory cable tube it's very straight. Disconnect both ends and see how it slides.
Good Luck |
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thasty07
Samba Member
Joined: May 16, 2014
Posts: 310
Location: Bend, OR
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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| Bassyaks wrote: |
Check your cable maybe it was too close to the exhaust. Maybe too many bends, On the syncro I ran it down over the starter and than into the factory cable tube it's very straight. Disconnect both ends and see how it slides.
Good Luck |
| Quote: |
| When I operate the throttle by hand at the engine, it also feels very stiff to open but then is smooth after that. |
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MsTaboo 
Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2006
Posts: 4631
Location: East Kootenay, British Columbia
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:36 am Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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The throttle plate spring is pretty stiff when opening by hand, but of course you could have some sort of damage or obstruction. If everything looks good then it's most likely the cable is binding somewhere.
You want as large curves as possible.
On an editorial note, I have found the new one piece throttle cable is not as smooth as the older version. I'm guessing Bostig changed design to save some money.
I had to change my cable from the old style to the new in order to use the new Cobra head intake. Old was shorter and more closely matched the original Vanagon cable, with a more open design. The new style is more like a bike cable and one thing you can do is add some lube (Triflow, etc.) to the cable before installation to help.
_________________
Currently:
'90 Syncro Westy 3 knob w/Zetec
The information age has morphed into the age of disinformation and willful ignorance. Agnotology!
When you stir up shit you're bound to get some on yourself.
Resist Kleptocratic Oligarchy (and Idiocracy)! |
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insyncro
Banned
Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 15086
Location: New York
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 10:50 am Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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RJES makes and sells, by far the best Vanagon conversion throttle cable IMO.
I have tried them all.
Yes, I know Richard's products are pricey and must be imported.
Just sharing personal experience.
BTW, aftermarket billet TBs are smooth as silk. |
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Franagon
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2009
Posts: 228
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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| Quote: |
Guys all my bitching about no power may be for naught.
I purchased a motor which was stored indoors for maybe 13 years, and it was said to have 4000 miles on it. After completion the engine fired up immediately and idled great. After about 600 miles I took a compression test, 3 cylinders were 180-185 and 1 was 45 psi. with 80% leakage.
I removed the head and inspected it, it was like new, so that left the cylinder, I filled the cylinder with carb clean and it held, however when I moved the piston up and down I noticed a ring of rust coming up along the edges of the piston. After inspecting the bad cylinder carefully I notice a ring in the bore that was about 3/4 of the way down,.
Here's what I surmised.
13 years ago the engine was put away with the #1 cylinder valves opened and all of the others closed, over the years a surface rust had built up, after running the engine for a few miles the rings cleaned off the rust, but being 3/4 of the way down some of the rust built up in the piston ring lands sticking the rings and allowing the blow by. Hopefully a few hours of soaking in PB and carb clean, with a little rotation the rings will loosen up
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Holy cow!  Is that your recently installed engine/conversion!? Did you pull the motor to then pull the head, etc!? Man, I hope I don't draw one like that. Good luck on the rehab for that one, hope it goes well.
_________________
84 Westy Wolfsburg Manual - RG6 Bostig |
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Franagon
Samba Member
Joined: January 13, 2009
Posts: 228
Location: Savannah, GA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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| Quote: |
Yeah, it's anecdotal, which is the gospel of the samba (not a surprise, most users have experience with one or a couple setups, not hundreds). Don't worry. Just listen to me and not the samba and you'll be fine like the many hundreds of others. 130HP (if you're actually making it because things are running correctly and you followed instructions and got everything verified as running right with me) is quite a lot better than 90. Bigger tires kill acceleration much more than people understand and most think horsepower=acceleration which is a gross simplification. For MPGs (driving speed&wind, grade&weight, then ride height are the order of major impacts on mpgs in vanagons, bigger tires hit #3), stick to stock on tires, and gearing and have no fear. If you want to go bigger, you can, but too big and you'll hate it. Also I don't recommend those BFG AT. Look nice, not great value.
Jim |
This has all made sense to me, and I know I looked into it before getting my current tires. I just did not think the 1.9 would do well with a "65 series" tire, going by diameter, so I did not go there. What I am more concerned is this 'flat spot' or something of the sort between the 3000 to 4000 RPM range. I feel my van lives in that current range most of its travels. I guess I am just taking to heart what folks are noticing with their recent conversions, not really knowing their entire set up. I am sure I will be super pleased with the power and reliability. I don't plan on putting on really large tires, just want to know what to watch out for. Thanks for all the input folks.
_________________
84 Westy Wolfsburg Manual - RG6 Bostig |
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Bassyaks
Samba Member
Joined: October 06, 2010
Posts: 1150
Location: S.E. Connetitcut
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| Posted: Mon Dec 07, 2015 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Bostig RG4 and RG5 Install Groups |
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Thasty, disconnect for both ends to see if the cable is the problem
Fran, the head was pulled in the van everything was disconnected and stayed in the van except for the exhaust manifold, it's a quick easy job, also removed #1 piston with the block in the van, that's the only cylinder that you can do that to. |
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