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MarkWard
Samba Member
Joined: February 09, 2005
Posts: 19008
Location: Retired South Florida
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 Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| I'm sorry, came across this thread. Did the UN1 transmission come in any cars sold in the US? Renault has been out of business here for a very long time. Impressive machining on the flanges. |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
In case anyone is having trouble imagining what I'm contemplating, here's a visual depiction rendered by my awesome MS Paint skillz:
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NICE!
Don't let Todd see this!
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12175
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| r39o wrote: |
| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
In case anyone is having trouble imagining what I'm contemplating, here's a visual depiction rendered by my awesome MS Paint skillz:
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NICE!
Don't let Todd see this! |
Believe me, since I've been tearing into the Jetta donor car, I've been really contemplating how I would either do a full transverse install with the stock FWD arrangement, or recreate the same thing in that stellar MS Paint "drawing". I think the lack of $ and a good source for 1:1 final drive ratio gears are the only thing keeping me from dreaming more of the impossible dream.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE. |
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r39o
Samba Polizei
Joined: May 18, 2005
Posts: 9800
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:56 am Post subject: |
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I do like the ideas here, so let me toss out my current favorite new modern transmission the ZF 8HP. This oh so tunable computer controlled transmission is in so so so many cars it will be easy to do things with it. I think everybody can like an 8 speed, right?
It may not even fit under the van, but it is the future, it seems....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!
1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....
Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently) |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12175
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| My local PnP has an 012 sitting in an A4 for really cheap. |
D'oh! Went out there today and found that it's a Quattro trans. Not ready to forge ahead with that kind of out of the boxiness, quite yet. They want $110, which is practically free.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE. |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12175
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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This could be a nice upgrade for the 2WD guys
https://weddleindustries.com/products/new-products/new-vw-094-5-speed-kit
The 4.57 and 4.13 R&Ps might be perfect for the high torque 1.8t and TDI swaps. Lower freeway RPMs and decent gear spacing are long overdue
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE. |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 7300
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12175
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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Yes sir, Jeff tipped me off to this option on the list.
I really like the flipped Audi option, but would like to see someone else here in NA tackle this first
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE. |
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pedrokrusher
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2011
Posts: 654
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| D Clymer wrote: |
The only transmissions from the VAG/Porsche empire that will work are Porsche 911 transmissions. There are five basic varieties of these to choose from - and one new exciting one soon to debut:
1. Type 915 Transmission: 1973-1986 Porsche 911. It's a good transmission, and it's compact enough to go in a Vanagon, but it has very poor shift quality and it is set up for cable clutch actuation.
2. G50 Transmission: 1987-1994 Porsche 911. This is an excellent transmission, and the pre-1990 short version would fit a Vanagon very well.
3. G50/20 Transmission: 1995-1998 Porsche 911. This is a 6 speed version of the G50.
4. G96 Transmission: 1999-2005 Porsche 911. Once again a 6 speed Getrag unit. This time it has cable shift actuation.
5. G97 Transmission: 2006-C Porsche 911. This one's gonna kill you, Zeitgeist  It's made in Japan by Aisin! Yup, with the 997, Porsche stopped using Getrag boxes and started sourcing their manual trannies from Aisin.
6. New 991 Transmission: The new 911 which is due to be released very soon uses the world's first 7 speed manual gearbox. Tell me you wouldn't want that in your Vanagon.
The biggest problem with all of these Porsche gearboxes is supply and cost. The G50s have a used market value of about $2800 and the G97s go for nearly $5000. The 915s can be had for less, probably $1500, but they have lots of miles on them and are also hard to find.
Another problem with using these Porsche trannies, and it's one that a lot of people don't quite get, is the fact that they are geared way too high for a Vanagon. All of these trannies up through at least the G50/20 use a 3.44:1 final drive ratio. For comparison, a typical Audi performance model uses a 4.11:1 final drive. Both have similar 1st gears of about 3.50:1. That gives an idea of just how tall the gearing is on a 911. 911s have typically been geared very high in first gear. It works because the cars are light in relation to the excellent torque of their large displacement motors. But put this in a Vanagon that weighs about 1000 lbs more, and you've got a first gear that's far from ideal. And one thing's for certain. You can't afford to open up a Porsche tranny and have custom ring and pinion gears installed. The later 6 speeds are a bit better. They still use the 3.44 final drive, but their first gear is like 3.82:1 instead of 3.50, but probably still not ideal.
It would be nice if the Audi front drive trannies could be used, but they can't. They just aren't packaged to be able to flip the differential.
There's are some possibilities with Audi automatics, but that's another discussion for another day.
David |
Quote from page one.
With all the talk of syncro transmissions breaking latelly, any way that a porsche all wheel drive transmission could fit the bill?
I know, no locker. But a limited slip could do 95% of the job.
Specially the price of rebuild, with the addition of the oil cooler components now people are using?
A porsche tranny starts to sound damn cheap!
Buy once, cry one...
_________________
Pedro
1989 vanagon Karmann Gipsy #652, TDI AFN
1991 vanagon westfalia conversion TDI ALH Silverfox
ex-1989 vanagon syncro passenger Syncrofox (Sold)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=598791&highlight=
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=493964&highlight=speed+aap+trans
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=496589&highlight=carrier+bars
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=506025 |
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Tristar Eric
Samba Member
Joined: July 25, 2004
Posts: 1262
Location: Portland, Or
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| Posted: Sun Dec 06, 2015 10:33 pm Post subject: Re: VAG/Porsche transmission options? |
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You're right about crying once. I've had the G50 in the Tristar for a while now. I would have gone through at least 4 vanagon transaxles by now.
I have a second G50 incase the first one gives up, but I can't break it!
_________________
Vanagon/Transporter flares here: www.terrawagen.com
[email protected] |
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pedrokrusher
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2011
Posts: 654
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12175
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone with an 012 readily available have the measurements from the vertical CV centerline (#12) to the face of the bellhousing, and horizontal CV centerline to the top of the same bellhousing?
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE. |
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xoo00oox
Samba Member
Joined: February 11, 2010
Posts: 2730
Location: East Nassau, NY
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
Does anyone with an 012 readily available have the measurements from the vertical CV centerline (#12) to the face of the bellhousing, and horizontal CV centerline to the top of the same bellhousing? |
7 1/8" and 10 3/4" |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12175
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 3:21 pm Post subject: Re: VAG/Porsche transmission options? |
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¡Muchas gracias!
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE. |
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Howesight
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2008
Posts: 3415
Location: Vancouver, B.C.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 5:49 pm Post subject: Re: VAG/Porsche transmission options? |
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Okay, Casey. I have started a comment a few times and got sidetracked, but here we go.
What about using the Audi 01E AWD transaxle? The adaptation would be to replace the centre torsen diff with a planetary gear set that would reverse the rotation. An optional approach would be to use another means to reverse rotation and use a planetary gear set for a low-range feature. Another option would be to use one set of combination planetary gears for both the reverse rotation and the low range feature.
Apart from reasonable strength of this transaxle, the ability for the 1.8T engine to mount up is a bonus.
This approach would require some creative thinking for a locking diff or LSD or TBD in what would become the "rear" diff. For the "front diff", the Audi rear diffs are available with a vacuum-actuated diff lock. The unknown is how well the Audi R&P sets will cope with reverse rotation. Andrew Flint's experiment with the 02A transaxle, a less heavily-built unit, suggests this might not be an issue.
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'86 Syncro Westy SVX |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12175
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:01 pm Post subject: Re: VAG/Porsche transmission options? |
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Interesting concept. I'm not familiar with the 01E, but full power is first sent through the center diff prior to being sent to either the case diff or divorced unit? If so, then that seems like a plausible option, albeit an expensive machine shop version.
I've been holed up in Casa de Chaos finishing up a longterm vintage Mercedes project, but the final details are so tedious that my mind has been wandering back to bluer skies. The LeMons thread prompted me to revisit an idea I had some time ago. Seems like the easiest and possibly lowest cost means in which a person could completely repower the entire drivetrain of a 2wd van, would be to locate a cheap 1.8t Passat or fwd A4 (and they're dirt cheap on Craig's site), and install the longitudinal drivetrain in its original orientation as a mid-engine configuration. The inner LCA mount spacing should be sufficient to accommodate the arrangement, which would obviously necessitate re-configuring the horizontal frame rail.
My crude calculations have the forward section of the engine ending up roughly where the rear seat begins. The rear seat would need to be either raised or split into three sections, with a raised static section in the middle covering the engine. I believe the Boxster used a version of the 012, so there would be guidance for how to set up forward shifting on a rear mounted trans.
http://s65.photobucket.com/user/splitbusvanatic/me...7.mp4.html
Lots of 012 trans are geared pretty tall, like 3.7X, but there appear to be some with 4.12 diffs. I think some versions even use the same CV flanges.
I'm kinda halfway seriously contemplating a mid-engine 012 with an ALH for my rig, but if I were to build a LeMons van, I'd definitely go with a 1.8t. Oodles of easily tweaked torque and a stronger trans all in one very complete relatively easy to wire up package. Are you listening, GoWesty?
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE.
Last edited by Zeitgeist 13 on Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12175
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| svenakela wrote: |
| Zeitgeist 13 wrote: |
| Has anyone made an adapter plate commercially available? |
Yes, Tim has everything you need. Adapter, spacers for the CV's, shifter adapter (if not going the wire route), and a well proven method how to prepare the tranny for the flip side. The parts aren't listed on the web site but you find him here:
http://www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk/ |
Speaking of the 012, Tim now has the flipper parts on his site:
http://www.ultimate-engineering.co.uk/gearbox.html
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE. |
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12175
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:05 pm Post subject: Re: VAG/Porsche transmission options? |
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I certainly hope GW has been paying attention to my calls for them to counter the Japanese LeMons van with an all VAG mid-engine 1.8t and five speed transplant. Way better torque characteristics, gearing, fuel efficiency...and provenance.
_________________
Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE. |
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pedrokrusher
Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2011
Posts: 654
Location: Montreal, Quebec, Canada
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Zeitgeist 13
Samba Member
Joined: March 05, 2009
Posts: 12175
Location: Port Manteau
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| Posted: Mon Feb 08, 2016 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: VAG/Porsche transmission options? |
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I doubt GW is going to come through for their customers for much of anything new and different in the trans department. However, for the purposes of beating the Japanese van at LeMons, they can and should think outside the box. My solution would assure victory for a Volkswagen powered van entering the race as a Volkswagen.
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Casey--
'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE. |
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