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VeeDubb steppin
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2015
Posts: 80
Location: weast of eden
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 Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:45 am Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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Oh BOY...! okay here it is the short ,short version ,
1.] can you I.D. an AFM without the lid i.e. on the main body of AFM ?
2.} Is there a very ,very early airbox/AFM mount ,and is the " S " hose different ?
3.}By removing the 4 screws and plastic adaptor, that holds AFM terminals ,and lightly cleaning and replacing will I have alterd any adjustments on the AFM
4.} How do I i.D. an AFM with the wrong lid ,or blank lid
5.}Any Idea what Fuel Injection Corp AFM 45976 is/will work on
6.}Will a half broke terminal #18 on my ecu 022 906 021 T affect the function/performance of my 78 Auto trans f.i. bus
7.} Is terminal #18 on female end i.e harness end normally blank ?
8.]Does anyone repair said ECU's
9.} Will you forgive me for being a " Stream of Consciousness " english language mutilator ?
10.} Will you be patient W/ me as I try to get thru my thick Skull ,the German Wizardry that I have now been forced to learn at an Old age ?
11.} Will you accept my apology for being a smart ass and trying to just have a lil fun Whilst I'm being tortured ? |
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VeeDubb steppin
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2015
Posts: 80
Location: weast of eden
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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Okay , upon further investigation here is what I've found the nice lady at FuelInjection Corp had to walk WAAAY back in the file room but she told me F.I. corp. unit # 45976 cross references to bosch 0280 200 020 . that will work on my type 2 w/ the 77/78 engine .
# 18 lug on my 022 906 021T ecu appears to go to a throttle valve switch , according to the 77-79 diagrams , however I don' see a throttle valve switch on the Ge 023341 engine Is this correct ? , and will there be any ill effects if this pin is broke on my ECU ? |
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SGKent 
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 43000
Location: at the beach in Northern Wokistan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:51 pm Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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| Quote: |
Oh BOY...! okay here it is the short ,short version ,
1.] can you I.D. an AFM without the lid i.e. on the main body of AFM ? |
018 and 020 are the same. Beyond that good luck. Have to compare to other units and part numbers inside
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| 2.} Is there a very ,very early airbox/AFM mount ,and is the " S " hose different ? |
2 questions. (a) no idea and (b) they are all the same on buses
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| 3.}By removing the 4 screws and plastic adaptor, that holds AFM terminals ,and lightly cleaning and replacing will I have alterd any adjustments on the AFM |
yes. Perhaps permanently. It is reading voltages using an X and Y plane across a board with many spots that send voltage. Unless it is in the exact same spot then the X and, or Y coordinates change so voltages change at each takeoff spot. The board measures total swing of the flap, how fast it is moving and in which direction.
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| 4.} How do I i.D. an AFM with the wrong lid ,or blank lid |
018 and 020 are the same. Beyond that good luck. Have to compare to other units and part numbers inside
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| 5.}Any Idea what Fuel Injection Corp AFM 45976 is/will work on |
not a clue, I bought a new old stock one I got so tired of rebuilt ones not working right,
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| 6.}Will a half broke terminal #18 on my ecu 022 906 021 T affect the function/performance of my 78 Auto trans f.i. bus |
No idea
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| 7.} Is terminal #18 on female end i.e harness end normally blank ? |
There is a wiring diagram in Technical under FI
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| 8.]Does anyone repair said ECU's |
FI corp. They just resolder the board and test to see if it works. They rarely fail so find a used one in classifieds if you need one.
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9.} Will you forgive me for being a " Stream of Consciousness " english language mutilator ? |
It is impossible to follow
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| 10.} Will you be patient W/ me as I try to get thru my thick Skull ,the German Wizardry that I have now been forced to learn at an Old age ? |
Only if you read the manuals that are easily available and not try to learn by asking 10,000 questions about things easily to understand with photos in the manuals
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| 11.} Will you accept my apology for being a smart ass and trying to just have a lil fun Whilst I'm being tortured ? |
if you are tortured it by your own hand. You bought the bus. 
_________________
 Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).
George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."
Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"
1971 deluxe (sold)
1977 deluxe |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12843
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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VeeDubb steppin Wrote
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| possibly Cal F.I. setup |
You need to get the part numbers off of the FI [fuel injection] parts.
thanks to mayor ratwell
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FISwap.html
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| the air box mount is different than the 76 and later models? |
I have only seen the green air box mount in buses. Maybe someone knows what the orange one is?
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| S " hose with the later 76 and later hose , and lo and behold ,I could not get it to match. |
Look for a part number.
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| It also had a " 6 pin AFM |
quote ratwell: "75 - 76 1/2 models models have a 6-pin AFM and an electro-vacuum EGR valve. Because they lack the air temp sensor, these models have an intake air preheat pipe that is part of the cross over pipe that's seen on the original exhaust setup."
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| do you think I changed the AFM adjustment ? |
NO
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| " half broken " terminal # 18, question will this unit function correctly like this , and or if not does/will anyone repair this single lug to salvage this box... |
The 022 906 021 T is for a 1977 Federal Automatic.
On this pin out diagram for a 78, #18 is X=blank. So may not be a problem.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=1471051
This diagram shows #18 going to the throttle switch.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1133653.jpg
Good luck
Tcash
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busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 53264
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:36 pm Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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We discussed this bus last year, it's a rediculously early 74 Cali auto FI system, first one I'd seen as well as others who've seen it all, Too bad about the loss of the mount but if you can't get parts what else do you do?
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
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Tcash
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Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12843
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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Xevin
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 9168
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:34 pm Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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The S hose. Is one longer then the other? If so the short one could be from a Vanagon. That's all I got 
_________________
Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
I respect Xevin and he's a turd  |
| SGKent wrote: |
My God! Xevin and I 100% agree  |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 43000
Location: at the beach in Northern Wokistan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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TCash said No, he is incorrect on this one.
First hand I can tell you that moving the board can and does trash some units. It trashed one of mine.
There are multiple voltage and current outputs between that board and the wiper (acts as a variable ground spot. If the board is moved it changes the voltages and current at each take out that goes to a different pin on the ECU. The ECU is analyzing differences between those pins then adding fuel as needed. Change the spot the wiper rides and one changes the amount of fuel that is added. Sometimes it doesn't affect much, other times like mine it trashes the unit. That is why I said perhaps permanently.
_________________
Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).
George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."
Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"
1971 deluxe (sold)
1977 deluxe |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12843
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:38 pm Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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| SGKent wrote: |
TCash said No, he is incorrect on this one.
First hand I can tell you that moving the board can and does trash some units. It trashed one of mine.
There are multiple voltage and current outputs between that board and the wiper (acts as a variable ground spot. If the board is moved it changes the voltages and current at each take out that goes to a different pin on the ECU. The ECU is analyzing differences between those pins then adding fuel as needed. Change the spot the wiper rides and one changes the amount of fuel that is added. Sometimes it doesn't affect much, other times like mine it trashes the unit. That is why I said perhaps permanently. |
I missed that you removed the board. So yes that could change the setting.
Good eye
Tcash |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 43000
Location: at the beach in Northern Wokistan
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:03 pm Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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| Tcash wrote: |
| SGKent wrote: |
TCash said No, he is incorrect on this one.
First hand I can tell you that moving the board can and does trash some units. It trashed one of mine.
There are multiple voltage and current outputs between that board and the wiper (acts as a variable ground spot. If the board is moved it changes the voltages and current at each take out that goes to a different pin on the ECU. The ECU is analyzing differences between those pins then adding fuel as needed. Change the spot the wiper rides and one changes the amount of fuel that is added. Sometimes it doesn't affect much, other times like mine it trashes the unit. That is why I said perhaps permanently. |
I missed that you removed the board. So yes that could change the setting.
Good eye
Tcash |
I do the same sometimes, especially on 200 word 5 paragraph questions.
Questions here are usually technical in nature and it works better to break them down into small bites (no pun intended as to bytes)
_________________
Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).
George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."
Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"
1971 deluxe (sold)
1977 deluxe |
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VeeDubb steppin
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2015
Posts: 80
Location: weast of eden
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| Posted: Thu Jul 07, 2016 11:18 pm Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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| TCash thanks for the help , I can see that you are more tolerant with the " Why Daddy " questions , I do understand it is hard to follow " 5 paragraph ' questions " I was just trying to explain in detail . I am having a hard time as well with reading some of the replies with all the chopped up quotes etc , but I wont resort to 1 upmanship ad hominem comments , just appreciate those who posses patience alot more . I didnt see anywhere in my first two original posts , the " 5 paragraph post " or the " to the kill " numerical post where I said I removed the board , ...I did NOT remove the board , just the 4 screws holding the plastic male terminal housing that accepts the AFM wire harness connection , I did this to clean the terminals , the so called potentiometer ? was not touched , therefore I believe youre first reply of " NO " is correct .Also thank you for adressing my other questions w/out a condescending tone , you were very kind and helpful , as were others , Contrary to what some may percieve of my Stupid questions , I have researched the heck out of this ... and also ," My Own Hand " didnt offend me , as I didnt BUY the bus , one could easily see that , If they comprehended my " 5 paragraph " post . I am doing this for my Sister , for free, .As I said before , this is an odd setup , and I have learned alot , even asking stupid questions , perhaps now some Others may become even more Illuminated than they already percieve , and pass it on , thats what good teachers do , bad teachers ...well they bark alot I guess ? thanks to ALL BG |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 43000
Location: at the beach in Northern Wokistan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:41 am Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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| VeeDubb steppin wrote: |
| TCash thanks for the help , I can see that you are more tolerant with the " Why Daddy " questions , I do understand it is hard to follow " 5 paragraph ' questions " I was just trying to explain in detail . I am having a hard time as well with reading some of the replies with all the chopped up quotes etc , but I wont resort to 1 upmanship ad hominem comments , just appreciate those who posses patience alot more . I didnt see anywhere in my first two original posts , the " 5 paragraph post " or the " to the kill " numerical post where I said I removed the board , ...I did NOT remove the board , just the 4 screws holding the plastic male terminal housing that accepts the AFM wire harness connection , I did this to clean the terminals , the so called potentiometer ? was not touched , therefore I believe youre first reply of " NO " is correct .Also thank you for adressing my other questions w/out a condescending tone , you were very kind and helpful , as were others , Contrary to what some may percieve of my Stupid questions , I have researched the heck out of this ... and also ," My Own Hand " didnt offend me , as I didnt BUY the bus , one could easily see that , If they comprehended my " 5 paragraph " post . I am doing this for my Sister , for free, .As I said before , this is an odd setup , and I have learned alot , even asking stupid questions , perhaps now some Others may become even more Illuminated than they already percieve , and pass it on , thats what good teachers do , bad teachers ...well they bark alot I guess ? thanks to ALL BG |
bite the hand that feeds because your expectations aren't met? That is a smart response. If you took 10 minutes to search and read you would have found most of your answers. I was generous taking time out of my day to answer your questions. You also lack a sense of humor. Good day.
_________________
Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).
George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."
Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"
1971 deluxe (sold)
1977 deluxe |
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VeeDubb steppin
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2015
Posts: 80
Location: weast of eden
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:18 am Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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| Steve , nothing could be further from the truth , ask anyone that knows me ,my sense of humor is King Size ,I tried to convey that in my half joking posts . Look I' dont want to get in a pissin contest with you , and I do appreciate the time you spent ,but I think you need to ease up on people that dpnt have your knowledge ,.I can handle the sarcasm ...hell I'm an ex New Yorker ,just dont expect me to lie down and take it without a little volley of my own .I know I can be a P.I.A ,and I know I ask maybe too many " Why Daddy " questions sometimes ,and I know I dont posess the smarts about Vdubbs that you do ! and most of all I know my spelling ,sentence structure and grammar SUCK !And trust me I spent the better part of MANY days researching ,how do you think I came upon all these sources ? So thats unfair to imply I'm a slacker .I don't mind your bark ,just be okay when others wanna bark at the moon with you , I'm a happy fun loving gear head looking for solutions .This is my first VeeDubb project and alot of it is new to me .So please when people ask " Why Daddy " have a lil more patience thats all .Again thank you for taking the initial time and thank you for letting me explain myself ,now its on to at least a half dozen other vehicles that I am new at working on ,and a few more forums ... |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 43000
Location: at the beach in Northern Wokistan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:28 am Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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| VeeDubb steppin wrote: |
| Steve , nothing could be further from the truth , ask anyone that knows me ,my sense of humor is King Size ,I tried to convey that in my half joking posts . Look I' dont want to get in a pissin contest with you , and I do appreciate the time you spent ,but I think you need to ease up on people that dpnt have your knowledge ,.I can handle the sarcasm ...hell I'm an ex New Yorker ,just dont expect me to lie down and take it without a little volley of my own .I know I can be a P.I.A ,and I know I ask maybe too many " Why Daddy " questions sometimes ,and I know I dont posess the smarts about Vdubbs that you do ! and most of all I know my spelling ,sentence structure and grammar SUCK !And trust me I spent the better part of MANY days researching ,how do you think I came upon all these sources ? So thats unfair to imply I'm a slacker .I don't mind your bark ,just be okay when others wanna bark at the moon with you , I'm a happy fun loving gear head looking for solutions .This is my first VeeDubb project and alot of it is new to me .So please when people ask " Why Daddy " have a lil more patience thats all .Again thank you for taking the initial time and thank you for letting me explain myself ,now its on to at least a half dozen other vehicles that I am new at working on ,and a few more forums ... |
you hang around here and you'll have no patience for why daddy questions when they've already been answered in other threads 150,000 times.
_________________
Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).
George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."
Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"
1971 deluxe (sold)
1977 deluxe |
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VeeDubb steppin
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2015
Posts: 80
Location: weast of eden
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:44 am Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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| Thats not my nature, I raised 3 kids and love to pass what little knowledge I posses on ,especially when I see the student is hungry for learning ,and has a little spunkiness and determination .I can see I have a Looong way to go on learning about VW stuff ,but I trudge on because now I kinda dig this funky Bus ,and it's not even mine .Thanks again and I hope we can get on better footing as far as correspondence goes ,because I DO respect your knowledge ,take care and have a good day |
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Xevin
Samba Member
Joined: January 08, 2014
Posts: 9168
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 9:56 am Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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VeeDubb,
No need to defend yourself. Just roll with it. When you read enough post and get a feel for these guys responses you'll understand. Steve can dish out some tough love but he's Johnny on the spot to help out whoever needs help. He and Wildthings go at it all the time but those two have so much knowledge and history they understand and have earned each other's respect. I've seen to many new guys get bent out of shape and burn bridges going toe to toe with guys that have 40 years of knowledge. What happens is the other gurus on The Samba see defensive responses and back away. And good on you apologizing, that goes along way. Good luck with the project.
_________________
Keep on Busin'
| 67rustavenger wrote: |
| GFY's Xevin and VW_Jimbo! |
| Clatter wrote: |
| Damn that Xevin... |
| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| I respect Xevin and he's a turd |
| SGKent wrote: |
| My God! Xevin and I 100% agree |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12843
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:02 am Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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Hey VeeDubb steppin
Could you please post a picture of the M-Plate located behind the left (drivers side us) seat?
M-Plate Location
Thank you
Tcash |
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VeeDubb steppin
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2015
Posts: 80
Location: weast of eden
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:20 am Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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| absolutely ,try to get it by tonight ...The airbox mount really baffled me ,I didnt want to hack it but my Sis is not a stickler for original,she wants a cruiser .I didnt see any way around this since it has the swapped in 77/78? GEO23341 eng w/7 pin afm . As I said I will order a new harness and mount the aotomatic 022 906 021 T ecu and try to move on . We had it running /driving w/the 6 pin afm but ,I want to make it right .It also had the first generation Auto trans with missing linkage ,boy that was another nightmare ,I got it squared away .This thing kinda ate my lunch ,but Im steadily learning ... |
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SGKent
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007
Posts: 43000
Location: at the beach in Northern Wokistan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 10:28 am Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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I am a strong believer in helping people, mentoring people. Just as others helped me along the way. Being a good mentor also requires having a student willing to do his/her homework. One just can't ask for answers when it is test time. I am sure you didn't teach your 3 children to only ask for the answers to the test questions. You wouldn't expect a surgeon to make a post on a forum, "Ok I am cutting this guy open, what happens if I cut this artery? and if I do can I sew it back together later?"
For example did you:
Read the owner's manual? - it is available for free on this forum
Read the factory service manual? It can be found online for free or go to Amazon
Read the FI manual? It is available for free on this forum
Done a search for the items you are trying to lean about? Search is free
Then ask educated questions.
BTW - if you haven't been forewarned, watch out for the 9 ft lb oil strainer bolt. Go tighter and it will in an instant ruin the engine.
_________________
Canned Water - the new California approved parts cleaner (except in a drought in which case rub it with sand).
George Carlin:
"Most people don't know what they're doing, and a lot of them are really good at it."
Skills@EuroCarsPlus:
"never time to do it right but always time to do it twice"
1971 deluxe (sold)
1977 deluxe |
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VeeDubb steppin
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2015
Posts: 80
Location: weast of eden
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| Posted: Fri Jul 08, 2016 11:10 am Post subject: Re: air flow senser, whats the differance? |
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| Steve ,Well No I'm non compliant on some of those points ,I have been doing alot of searching on specifics however . I'm not much of a booksmart kinda guy , I guess I'm kinda like your basic uneducated Lugg, I barely finished High School ,but I'm okay with that ,reading comprehension never was my forte ,but I do the best I can ,problem with me is I'm scatterbrained sometimes .I am currently working on Mercedes 300SD's ,Honda trail 90's , 1970 GTO's Volvo 740 turbo's etc etc etc . But Oh well ,and thanks for the oil strainer heads up ... and TCASH here ya go ...,,,,, |
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