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VIN Plate for true identification of bus type?
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InDaWeeds
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:29 pm    Post subject: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

Can you determine the true identity of a bus purely from the VIN plate?

I have seen a bus for sale (Photos only) that looks to be a true 21 window bus.

However the M-code plate is missing. And no birth certificate. It has its VIN Plate type 24 with number etc. (Can I tell anything from this alone?)

It has all the key 21 metal, belly pans etc. and the roof looks like it has been on the bus since the factory looking at the overall paint fade/wear outside and in.

Any other key areas to look at to tell if it is real or clone? (I cannot get to see it in person)

Thanks
Mike.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

VIN plates can be swapped. The only for sure place is the stamped in VIN number (Chassis number). Although you could also weld in a new section here, that would be less likely to happen and more noticeable.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:40 pm    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

24 means it was a deluxe, 13 or 21 for that year. Doesn't specify
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:42 pm    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

All that stuff is easy to swap for someone with enough skills to weld in windows, etc.., I'd want to spend an hour in person with the bus on a hoist before buying anything like a deluxe, pics alone just won't do.
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InDaWeeds
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

Thanks!

The VIN number on the plate and the number stamped in the engine bay area match.
However like mentioned they could have been swapped, inserted, welded etc.

I knew the type 24 means deluxe, but again 13 or 21.

Anyone know of an area inside or outside the bus that would be only true for 21's and less likely to be modified by someone trying to create a clone?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:12 pm    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

wiring tube on the frame
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:15 pm    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

Is that not covered by the belly pans?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

InDaWeeds wrote:
Is that not covered by the belly pans?

dont recall if it is visible from the front. but i believe it is hands down the most skipped detail in a clone
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InDaWeeds
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

Thanks.
Anyone have good photos of this wire tube to look for?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

InDaWeeds wrote:
Thanks.
Anyone have good photos of this wire tube to look for?


Here's a photo of the wiring tube, with the center pan removed. It's on the bottom rail in this picture. With the center pan installed, you could not see this tube, but the openings will be in the cross member, passenger side front, next to the frame member. The rear opening, I believe, is not visible as it is covered by the frame tube for a short distance, rearward.

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Here's another picture, from the top, near the rear torsion tube. You can see the tube inside the frame member. I'm not sure if you can see a hole on the outside where the tube exits or even the end of the tube because the frame member is covered a short distance from the front cross member and the wiring loom exits at that point. Some one with a true 21 can verify if the front end of the tube is visible.

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InDaWeeds
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

Does anyone see anything here that says this is a true 21 window bus?

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:04 pm    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

This is the VIN Plate from the 21 Window Bus. Looks like its missing some stamped numbers? ... Is this typical?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 6:47 pm    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

looks like an id tag for a late '64 deluxe. type 24, vin number is the long number to the right.
i don't think any numbers are "missing". i think that's how they were stamped at that time.
i had an early '64 deluxe, almost exactly 100000 before that one.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:21 pm    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

InDaWeeds wrote:
Does anyone see anything here that says this is a true 21 window bus?

Hard to say aside from the belly pans appear to be OG. But the rest of the rust repairs are BRUTAL!, I'd be very afraid to peek under those belly pans, if the frame needed that much work ahead of them odds are good the same demons are hiding behind as well. If that many corners were cut underneath look at the rest with a very suspicious eye.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2016 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

I hear what you are saying. Looks to be some poor patches here and there. However If the rest of the frame was in poor shape, wouldn't the belly pans be heavily corroded before the frame would suffer?
The rest of the bus per the current owner and supplied photos looks fairly solid.
Thoughts?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:57 am    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

I think deluxes had rear speaker mounts...
Reference thread
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 5:49 am    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

InDaWeeds wrote:
Does anyone see anything here that says this is a true 21 window bus?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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ugly repair work. Do your homework on this one, real or not....
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

easy e wrote:
I think deluxes had rear speaker mounts...
Reference thread
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Not always...
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InDaWeeds
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:00 am    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

The pic posted with speaker holes looks like a 23 window bus. This 21 window has an extra roof brace/support circled in red. I have seen this on most 21 window buses.

I have no doubt this bus is a true 21 window after requesting extra photos of detailed areas. I will just have to order the Birth Certificate to prove for sure.

Anyone know of a way to expedite VW Birth Certificates? ... Anyone recently received one sooner than 6 months?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: VIN Plate for true identification of bus type? Reply with quote

buseric wrote:
InDaWeeds wrote:
Does anyone see anything here that says this is a true 21 window bus?


ugly repair work. Do your homework on this one, real or not....

Almost looks like a whole front clip.
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