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Shift1
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2016
Posts: 27
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 Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:27 pm Post subject: 87 Vanagon Gutted A/C Low speed fan not working |
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Hello all,
I am in need of an electrical expert.
The previous own gutted the A/C system all tubing and wiring along with it.
Didn't really matter to me as I can suffer through the short summers we have here and I did a Subaru swap.
Problem is, I have no low speed on the radiator fan.
I tested the fan speed at the radiator temp switch by jumping a wire across the three on the plug, in pairs. I get high speed but no low. So, I thought, ok its the resistor. Just replaced that and no luck. Fuse is fine. All the wiring seems to be in decent shape.
So, I took a look at some diagrams and compared the one with a/c vs without. I am not very good at reading diagrams but here was what I am thinking.
With everything missing that would have gone to the a/c system (relays, a/c clutch, fuses) it is difficult to trace but it looks like the red/blk wire off the fan resistor behind the headlight should go to the second stage fan relay, which is no longer there. This wire seems to lead to nowhere as seen in the photo. http://imgur.com/a/37z8G
Could this red/black wire be run to the fuse block at fuse 1 to get the low speed fans working.
Here are the schematics I am looking at ...
With A/C:
http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/Campingart/vanagon/87vanagonschmatics/simple87coolingfanwac.gif
Without A/C:
http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/Campingart/va...annoac.gif
Thanks for any help and please forgive my ignorance. Wiring is not my strongest subject.
Kyle |
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crazyvwvanman
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Joined: January 28, 2008
Posts: 10504
Location: Orbiting San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:43 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon Gutted A/C Low speed fan not working |
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If your van has the 3 wire fan resistor you must use the A/C wiring diagram.
WARNING!!! The wrong wire colors are shown for a few of the fan/switch/resistor area. This can drive you crazy when trying to figure things out.
I'm on the road and I don't have my notes with me but I posted the color errors some years ago
Mark |
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Shift1
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2016
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:48 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon Gutted A/C Low speed fan not working |
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OK, I will try to follow it as best I can.
However, without relays like the 2nd stage cooling relay, how could I go about setting everything up to work?
Will I need to find these relays and install them?
Thanks
Kyle |
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Shift1
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2016
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 11:16 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon Gutted A/C Low speed fan not working |
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Ok, So, I have stared at the A/C diagram so long I now see it imprinted on my eyes when I close them.
It seems that what I am missing is the third stage relay for the radiator fan under dash and the accompanying wiring.
I am guessing there is no way to bypass this and have a functioning system so, my question has no turned to...
Where might I find the proper relay, fuse, and the proper shape plug for the fuse box to get this working right?
Thanks
Kyle |
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Shift1
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2016
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:21 am Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon Gutted A/C Low speed fan not working |
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Ok, I have been doing some research and it appears that I am only missing the third stage relay, wiring and fuse. There is a solid red wire and a red/blue wire coming in that have been cut and taped off. It would appear that these go to that relay.
Second stage relay is there and I now have the red/black wire running to it and a ground running from it to a ground tree.
Unfortunately it seems that without that third stage relay I will not have a low speed fan.
Guess that is enough for one night. Thanks all and sorry for my many posts. Working out wiring, and previous owners carelessness, is a bit frustrating. |
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WestyWanter
Samba Member
Joined: February 15, 2017
Posts: 459
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:36 am Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon Gutted A/C Low speed fan not working |
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I just went through this to find out my van is an exception and the resistor is wired in, it doesn't have the green resistor behind the headlight. What I did was clean the switch and sensor terminals and added some electrode jelly an long behold it started to work even though when I jump it still with a wire I only have high speed, so IDK.
Now I'm dealing with my coolant level dummy light flashing all the freaking time when there is plenty of coolant in the system... if its not one thing its another. |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32987
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Farf
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Joined: July 12, 2009
Posts: 463
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 6:46 am Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon Gutted A/C Low speed fan not working |
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| Shift1 wrote: |
| Unfortunately it seems that without that third stage relay I will not have a low speed fan. |
Looking at the (with a/c) diagram you provided, neither the 2nd or 3rd stage relay would need to be there for you to get low speed operation. From your description of jumping out the thermostat you can get the high speed fan to come on. If so, you have a working 3rd stage relay. Are you sure you are running on high speed at that point? It should sound like a freight train. |
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Shift1
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2016
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon Gutted A/C Low speed fan not working |
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Thanks all,
It seems like the diagram I have been using here, http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/Campingart/vanagon/87vanagonschmatics/simple87coolingfanwac.gif , is correct as far as wire colors go.
When I jump the radiator temp switch plug and get the fan running it is very loud and fast so I am assuming this is the high speed. Though, given that it has only ever run at the one speed, I assumed this was not the low speed setting.
What was cut based on the diagram is:
1. The Red wire running from the battery to behind the fuse block. It was also cut from the battery side.
2. The red/blue wire from the three radiator fan switch (cut just as it enters behind the fuse block)
3. The red/black wire from the resistor (cut just as it enters behind the fuse block)
4. The brown ground wire that would have been on the plug with the red/black wire.
5. There should be a relay and fuse mounted behind and to the left (as you sit in the drivers seat) of the fuse block. This looks like it should also have a blk and red/blue wire running to the fuse block from the relay. This is missing.
So, if I am not mistaken, or if there are no tricks anyone knows of, it seems like to get the two speeds working on the radiator fan I would need to find this relay block and wire everything according to the diagram.
Guess I was just hoping there was a way to bypass all this and still have the two speeds. |
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32987
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Farf
Samba Member
Joined: July 12, 2009
Posts: 463
Location: Colorado
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:30 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon Gutted A/C Low speed fan not working |
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I think the red highlighted paths will get you high and low speed operation without involving the 2nd stage relay. Sounds like your 3rd stage relay is already in play.
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Shift1
Samba Member
Joined: March 17, 2016
Posts: 27
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:12 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon Gutted A/C Low speed fan not working |
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If I am not mistaken the 2nd stage relay is plugged into the fuse box which i do now have.
At least this is what I understand from GoWesty's breakdown of the system.
"The 450-watt system is comprised of:
1) Radiator (up front)
2) Two-stage thermo-switch on radiator
a. First stage comes on at a radiator temperature of 85C (185F)
b. Third stage comes on at a radiator temperature of 95C (203F)
3) Electric cooling fan on radiator, 450 watt
4) Resistor behind left headlight
5) Fuse for fan first and second stage on fuse panel, #1, 30 amp
6) Relay for fan second stage on fuse panel, location #5
7) Relay for radiator fan third stage under dash, to left of speedo
8) Fuse for fan third stage, strip type 50 amp right next the third stage relay
9) Water pump on engine
10) Thermostat on engine
11) Hoses and pipes throughout "
I think I may have found a relay and mount for that third stage in my box of bits. There was a small black box with 2 relays in it from the old harness before doing the engine conversion (cant remember what function it served)
One of the relays looks like the exact one use for the third stage setup. So, I may have had a bit of luck.
Last edited by Shift1 on Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:24 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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atomatom
Samba Member
Joined: May 15, 2012
Posts: 1911
Location: in an 84 Westy or Bowen Island, BC
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:16 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon Gutted A/C Low speed fan not working |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Most of us have a very strong hatred for modifications that our PO's made.
Welcome to the club! 
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the best part about PO mods is ripping them out. like a rotten tooth. so good.
_________________
84 Vanagon Westy, 1.9L, California raised but defected to Canada. |
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khughes
Samba Member
Joined: July 13, 2013
Posts: 927
Location: Phoenix AZ
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon Gutted A/C Low speed fan not working |
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| atomatom wrote: |
| djkeev wrote: |
Most of us have a very strong hatred for modifications that our PO's made.
Welcome to the club!
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the best part about PO mods is ripping them out. like a rotten tooth. so good. |
And then some of us have the dealer installed A/C which matches...virtually nothing in Bentley. My '86 had the pre-86 small evaporator, the later 3-speed fan, with all of the relays under the dash (i.e. nothing behind the rear cabinet). Had fun chasing that all down 
Now it has a custom post-86 evap and housing, with all different wiring. But, I'll dead before there's a new owner so I don't care, I have the drawings (evil laugh)
_________________
'86 Westy FAS GenV Turbo (Marvin) |
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SyncroChrick
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Joined: January 10, 2005
Posts: 1036
Location: San Francisco, CA
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: 87 Vanagon Gutted A/C Low speed fan not working |
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For what it's worth. I removed the rear A/C wiring when I did my poptop to Westfalia conversion. I don't recall removing anything under the dash.
I still have the low speed on my fan.
I am about to start putting the A/C back in place piece by piece, so there may be relevant information here for me. |
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