Electrical issue (solved - ground issue)

[IronBenderII]

Where to start... I have a factory diesel Westfalia who’s engine bay has always been a mess. When I swapped the AHU in I took great pains to get the engine bay sparking clean so I could reach in there without coming out black.

Everything was fine until I blew a seal on my turbo (don’t say anything, I know now) and got soot everywhere. Well, I decided to clean the motor with some degreaser. I scrubbed the hell out of everything and rinsed it off with water. I was not particularly careful with the water.

After the cleaning I tried to start it and heard some odd action on the various relays and then had no crank. When I turned the key off to give it another try I noticed the warning lights in my dash stayed on. I knew I had screwed up.

So, I popped the engine cover and let it air out for a day. The next day, same deal. Awesome. I unhooked the battery and put it on to charge. I also unhooked some relays that I thought may have gotten hosed (get it?). The next day I hooked everything back up and gave it a try. It started right up! I game myself a high 5 for being a bad assed mechanic and was off to the races.My bliss lasted about 3 days. Same thing...

I unhooked every plug connected to my engine. Only 1 seemed to have some water in it, the one that goes to the injection pump. I sprayed some electrical cleaner on it and gave it 24 hours, no dice. I’ve been working on it all day and am out of ideas. So I’m here...

Here’s what I’m seeing:

I’m getting 12 volts to ground
When I try and start the motor I have no crank.
I tried running 12 volts directly to the starter to get it turn over but no dice.
I thought maybe the starter had shorted out so I unwired the starter.
I The lights stay on after I remove the key.
The buzzer for the key in the ignition doesn’t work. When I pull that relay it goes from 12 volts to the frame to 4. I don’t think the relay is the issue.
When I grounded out my computer case to the frame, mysteriously the key buzzer worked. But when I grounded the case out to the battery, the buzzer didn’t work.
I have pulled every connection on my engine, 1 by 1 and checked the frame voltage. I also pulled every relay. I also pulled every fuse. I even unhooked some connectors under the dash. Nothing but the buzzer relay made the slightest difference.
I have j plugged my computer completely.

Well, there you have it. Pretty freaking weird!!! I unhooked the battery and have it on the charger overnight. I don’t know if that will make a difference. I really hope it doesn’t since I need to find root cause and fix this. Any ideas??

Jack
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FIRST Robotics Coach - #3859 (Wolfpack Robotics) http://www.twitter.com/wprobotics

'82 Diesel Westfalia with an 1Z TDI, Peloquin, GW 1.5" lift springs, 27" BFG ATs

'75 Bronco with 408 stroker, 40" MTRs, ARB/Dana 60 front/rear, all home built.

And my kid has a really cool baja bug

[Zeitgeist 13]

Do you have access to VCDS or a basic OBD reader? It seems like the codes they throw would give you some hint as to the areas where there are problems.
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE.

[IronBenderII]

I have OBD2 only, I don’t think it will tell me anything informative
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FIRST Robotics Coach - #3859 (Wolfpack Robotics) http://www.twitter.com/wprobotics

'82 Diesel Westfalia with an 1Z TDI, Peloquin, GW 1.5" lift springs, 27" BFG ATs

'75 Bronco with 408 stroker, 40" MTRs, ARB/Dana 60 front/rear, all home built.

And my kid has a really cool baja bug

[?Waldo?]

I've pressure washed the hell out of my mTDI engine multiple times with nary a hiccup. I wish you the best of luck with your diagnosis.

[IronBenderII]

Thanks!!
_________________
FIRST Robotics Coach - #3859 (Wolfpack Robotics) http://www.twitter.com/wprobotics

'82 Diesel Westfalia with an 1Z TDI, Peloquin, GW 1.5" lift springs, 27" BFG ATs

'75 Bronco with 408 stroker, 40" MTRs, ARB/Dana 60 front/rear, all home built.

And my kid has a really cool baja bug

[Vanagon Nut]

There's a lot of variables here. Including how the swap was done. (e.g. relay, ECU locations). You could be dealing with water inside a component(s) that hasn't dried out and/or damage done to other related components as a result of shorts inside that component(s) due to that water.

Any chance water got in the fuel system?

Since you mention relays, my first thought is one or more got water in them. If so, did that damage them and as a result, damage a part connected to it?

Much WAG on my part....

Neil.
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1981 Westy DIY 15º ABA
(VW Gas I4)

1988 Westy DIY 50º ABA

VE7TBN

[dobryan]

[Zeitgeist 13]

I can read codes via VCDS on my Audi with OBD1, so I'm sure the codes can be read from your ECU. If you don't try this, then you're operating in the dark.
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE.

[IronBenderII]

I haven’t checked OBDII yet but I will. Also, no way I got water in the fuel system. It’s sealed up nice and tight!

Interesting update: I disconnected every connector on my engine and then reconnected my battery. The voltage to the frame was about 2.7 volts. Then I went to the cab and with the door open, inserted the key. Now I have over 10 volts to the frame. Finally I turned the they to start (nothing happened because I have everything in the whole van unplugged) I now have just over 11 volts. Maybe it is that relay??? I’m going to disassemble and see if I let the magic smoke out...

More to follow.
_________________
FIRST Robotics Coach - #3859 (Wolfpack Robotics) http://www.twitter.com/wprobotics

'82 Diesel Westfalia with an 1Z TDI, Peloquin, GW 1.5" lift springs, 27" BFG ATs

'75 Bronco with 408 stroker, 40" MTRs, ARB/Dana 60 front/rear, all home built.

And my kid has a really cool baja bug

[dobryan]

[IronBenderII]

Well, I don’t know that I didn’t have a small short to start off with. So the 3 volts could be existing.

So, I put that relay back in and validate that with it installed, when I put the key in, I get a short buzz telling my keys are in the ignition with the door open then nothing (and battery voltage to the frame). For run, I tried closing my door and sure enough, voltage is reduced back down to 2.7 volts. So I can now apply voltage to my frame by opening the door 😂😂. Happy Friday everyone, it feels like I’m being punked .

I’m going to try swapping that relay out and see if I get lucky...
_________________
FIRST Robotics Coach - #3859 (Wolfpack Robotics) http://www.twitter.com/wprobotics

'82 Diesel Westfalia with an 1Z TDI, Peloquin, GW 1.5" lift springs, 27" BFG ATs

'75 Bronco with 408 stroker, 40" MTRs, ARB/Dana 60 front/rear, all home built.

And my kid has a really cool baja bug

[dobryan]

How are you measuring this voltage?
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Traveling after Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

The Western Syncro build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794

[[email protected]]

Try with a boster connected. Could be thst your bat is bad. Clean out your grounds.

[IronBenderII]

[Zeitgeist 13]

Since your starter and alternator are in/near where you were cleaning, those two could be your culprits...also the black box on the driver side if you have one. It contains a direct connection to the alternator.
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH
'01 Weekender --> full camper
NEAT, no ICE.

[IronBenderII]

[IronBenderII]

Hmmm. Maybe I’m not measuring things correctly. Maybe my test isn’t valid. Things like a stereo keep alive and the clock are going to pull voltage all the time. So measuring voltage between the battery lug and terminal maybe isn’t he right approach. Hmmmmm
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FIRST Robotics Coach - #3859 (Wolfpack Robotics) http://www.twitter.com/wprobotics

'82 Diesel Westfalia with an 1Z TDI, Peloquin, GW 1.5" lift springs, 27" BFG ATs

'75 Bronco with 408 stroker, 40" MTRs, ARB/Dana 60 front/rear, all home built.

And my kid has a really cool baja bug

[IronBenderII]

With everything unplugged and the battery connected I’m down to 1.5 volts coming through my intercooler pump. I’m going to start plugging things in to see what causes it to jump.
_________________
FIRST Robotics Coach - #3859 (Wolfpack Robotics) http://www.twitter.com/wprobotics

'82 Diesel Westfalia with an 1Z TDI, Peloquin, GW 1.5" lift springs, 27" BFG ATs

'75 Bronco with 408 stroker, 40" MTRs, ARB/Dana 60 front/rear, all home built.

And my kid has a really cool baja bug

[vwjetboat]

id take a leaf blower to every electrical part you can get to .. i bet there is water sitting someplace thats not draining.. and shorting out system

[IronBenderII]

Still working through the madness... the issue seems to be up front somewhere. When I disconnect the main I put from the fuse block, no power drain (well, less than 2 volts). With all fuses in and all relays removed I have 12 volts coming through intercooler power wire with the key on and back down to <2 volts with the key off. I traced some things and with the window wiper motor unplugged I was back down to < 2 volts with the key on. The I put one of the relays on and I’m back to twelve volts with the key on. It’s like anything that gets plugged in under the dash is shorting out.

No popped fuses and no hot wires that I can find...
_________________
FIRST Robotics Coach - #3859 (Wolfpack Robotics) http://www.twitter.com/wprobotics

'82 Diesel Westfalia with an 1Z TDI, Peloquin, GW 1.5" lift springs, 27" BFG ATs

'75 Bronco with 408 stroker, 40" MTRs, ARB/Dana 60 front/rear, all home built.

And my kid has a really cool baja bug