Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nextgen
Samba Member


Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 4273
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
nextgen is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:06 pm    Post subject: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

My bug is a standard 73, dropped front end front and rear anti sway bars, 4 wheel discs, dropped front spindles, KYB Gas Adjust rears, standard shocks front. 195 60 15 rears 195 50 15 fronts. Engine is a T-4 could be a T-1 for this post. Just had new ball joints and tie rods installed the car drives great.

I take it on the NYS Thruway and test it out, Not a drag car for off the line,but when you get to 50 and above the power comes in. My test was to see how the front end handles at speed. 914 engine no special cam but 2.0 8.5 to 1. The car went from 60 to 100 in seconds . Not a surprise seeing the 914 that weighed 300 lbs more could do 127mph.

At 100 with all I did it did not feel safe after 90mph. Aerodynamics , no matter. My Hp is is in the 110hp range

My point if I did less to the suspension would it feel worse , I guess, but our driving goal is to keep up with traffic at 75 mph.

So really how much HP is needed, keeping in mind of how our std trannys are set up. 70hp 80hp 90hp 100 hp vs spending more more for what you don't need.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
site: www.nextgen-usa.com
email: [email protected]
or
[email protected]
The Type IV Upright Conversion Manual
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
nextgen
Samba Member


Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 4273
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
nextgen is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:21 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

BTY 75 mph to 80 is fine for me. Having cars as old as ours keeping up with modern vehicles I would think is everyone's goal, unless a Pure Original Collector car!
_________________
site: www.nextgen-usa.com
email: [email protected]
or
[email protected]
The Type IV Upright Conversion Manual
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Coyotemutt
Samba Member


Joined: June 16, 2017
Posts: 218
Location: Pecos, New Mexico
Coyotemutt is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:35 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

70ish, maybe even 60 horsepower is good enough unless you need to be the first one to the next freeway exit. I drove a stock 1600 for years and rarely needed more power than that. I definitely wanted more though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
nextgen
Samba Member


Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 4273
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
nextgen is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:06 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

I agree, I know I have the extra power and love it but, the engine cost me $250 for New Unused 914 Training engine that was never run or had any oil in it

Vs building a T-1 up more then the 70hp you mentioned can get expensive and if not done right can cut the longevity of the engines life..

I had 1600 bugs for years and maybe 65 hp with all my souping it up. Fine for commuting to Manhattan for 30 years. But I must admit mostly right lane driving .
_________________
site: www.nextgen-usa.com
email: [email protected]
or
[email protected]
The Type IV Upright Conversion Manual
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
stanthedog
Samba Member


Joined: October 11, 2006
Posts: 322
Location: Portland,oregon.
stanthedog is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

How much power?? Just a little more. Always just a little more.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
nextgen
Samba Member


Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 4273
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
nextgen is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

HI Stan, yep that is the problem, we are addicted, I agree. I guess 0 to 80 is the zone but how fast we move in it is our goal, because above 80 it gets dangerous.

When I hit 100 and was on a concrete highway going down hill with 18 wheelers lots of cars, even thinking about changing lanes was freaking me out.

We are not much better then a Motorcycle at those speeds if we crash. Anything above 70 a crash can be deadly against cars 40years more advanced.

But we are sure cool and unique. We should focus more on that,,ha trying to convince myself.
_________________
site: www.nextgen-usa.com
email: [email protected]
or
[email protected]
The Type IV Upright Conversion Manual
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mark tucker
Samba Member


Joined: April 08, 2009
Posts: 21040
Location: SHALIMAR ,FLORIDA
mark tucker is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 2:23 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

add more power, and add a rear wing, and add a front wing/dam, do all the right work for the speeds you want to run. droped beams are different than droped spindials. add a shim or 4 to the beam to get some more caster. make sure the aliginement front&rear is good. as well as tight wheel bearings and good steering box.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Krochus
Samba Member


Joined: January 01, 2017
Posts: 803
Location: NW Arkansas
Krochus is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

How much horsepower?

All of them

2165 dual Weber turbo Baja bug
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
ach60 Premium Member
Samba Member


Joined: May 14, 2001
Posts: 3826
Location: Morgan Hill
ach60 is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

nextgen wrote:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Too much rake.
Just like engines, suspensions need tuning too.
I'd drop the rear, and I'd also be looking at better wheels, and tires.
Look for a wheel that has a mounting that insure you're hub-centric at least in the front.
After that I'd look for a shop that can do a 4 wheel alignment.
_________________
Good Luck
Al
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glasser
Samba Member


Joined: September 18, 2007
Posts: 1632
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Glasser is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:06 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

I guess it all depends on your comfort level. I also am running a 2.0L 914 Porsche. Bored and stroked to 2650cc. 187HP 200 ft/lbs torque 8.5:1 compresion. You want to feel something pull this is your car.
1400Lbs buggy with a heck of a lot shorter wheel base. The car demands respect as things can go south fast.
To date I've had it up to 200Kph (124 mph) still pulling.
So, is it enough you ask? Hell no!!!


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Brent
My build up http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=265364&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Project#2. Neighbors build up. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=327008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 66737
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

The answer is always 30 more than you have.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Cast Iron and Aluminum distributors rebuilt since 2000.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glasser
Samba Member


Joined: September 18, 2007
Posts: 1632
Location: Calgary Alberta Canada
Glasser is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

Glenn wrote:
The answer is always 30 more than you have.


Applause Agreed!
_________________
Brent
My build up http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=265364&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Project#2. Neighbors build up. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=327008
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jismay
Samba Member


Joined: February 02, 2010
Posts: 195
Location: Norco, CA
jismay is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:04 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

I have a relatively heavy Type3 Squareback. When I blew the 1600 it came with I replaced it with a mild 1915 (W110 cam, mild ported heads, dual weber 40IDF)
I figure I have somewhere 90-100 HP or so. I can cruise 80MPH all day long no problems and honestly while more power is always nice I'm pretty happy with what I have now.
_________________
1970 Squareback with 1915cc dual 40idf
1979 Beetle Convertible
1980 Vanagon Westfalia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 66737
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

OK, not that i'm not on my phone i can really reply.

Years ago I had a 1776 with dual Dells, Bosch blue coil, 019 and a 1.5" header. HP might of been in the high 80s and it had no problem getting on the interstate and cruising with traffic at highway speeds.

Fast forward 30 years and the same car now has a 2180 with dual 48 IDA, Bosch blue coil, 010 and 1-5/8" header. It also has a Berg 5 speed with a 0.825th and 3.875 r/p, so getting on the interstate is a breeze and cruising at 80mph is not problem.

The trick is driveability. Having the wrong combo can make is a bitch on local streets and traffic. My 2180 has a FK8 cam so below 2500 rpm its very mild and has no problem at low speeds.

For high speed driving, the stock VW body is a brick. There are things you can do and I have. Lowered 3" in the front and 1" in the rear. Heavier front sway bar and adding a rear. Better shocks and new suspension bushings. A good 4 wheel alignment is a must. Wider wheels (5.5x15) and better tires BF Goodrich g-Force 195/55-15 front and 205/60-15 rear.

The car handles very well and i've had it well past 100mph. After driving the same car for 44 years, I know how to slide the rear out and snap it back under throttle.

With all of this it still doesn't drive and never will like a modern car. 80mph on the interstate is fine, but I see no reason to drive it faster. Its just not safe where I live and sooner or later you'll get yourself into trouble which is not a good idea in a car designed in the 1930s.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Cast Iron and Aluminum distributors rebuilt since 2000.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
nextgen
Samba Member


Joined: August 19, 2004
Posts: 4273
Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
nextgen is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

Ok my fronts are 195 50-15 G-Force.

LIke Glenn I am very happy were with my car 80 all day is fine

Mark, totally understand what you are saying sure there are guys that did 150 in stock bodied bugs at Bonneville. lIke your Race mods sure, but as my Subject is non race cars.

But Mark you are a perfect example, I guess we all want more. I am getting old and see things a bit differently. No Air bags, Bumpers ?? Ha.

Old saying "Life is like a roll of toilet paper, the more you use the faster it goes !!

My car can do over 100, on a perfect road like an air port field I may try it again. But 80 is fine on highways with A holes in tuner cars riding your ass and weaving and cutting in front of you if you give them a inch to get in.






,
_________________
site: www.nextgen-usa.com
email: [email protected]
or
[email protected]
The Type IV Upright Conversion Manual
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Glenn Premium Member
Mr. 010


Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 66737
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Glenn is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

nextgen wrote:
But 80 is fine on highways with A holes in tuner cars riding your ass and weaving and cutting in front of you if you give them a inch to get in.

,

I would not try to mix it up with a guy in a WRX STi at high speed.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"

Cast Iron and Aluminum distributors rebuilt since 2000.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
vwracerdave
Samba Member


Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 12942
Location: Deep in the 405
vwracerdave is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

A split window Bug with a 25 horse engine can do 65 MPH. 90 HP is plenty for any public roads here in the USA. A Berg 5 speed like Glen has really changes the drivability a lot more than increasing the HP.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63

Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
slalombuggy
Samba Member


Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 7709
Location: Canada 306
slalombuggy is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:02 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

Level your car out. That flat windshield is killing you and you made it even more upright with that much rake. You've also moved the low pressure area further up on the rear of the car making it more unstable. At around 100mph the rear of the car actually starts to lift. Level the car out and add a Harrods helper. They actually make a huge difference at speed. Dean Lowery white knuckled a 131 in a stock as a rock Beetle and then an easy 141 with only a Harrods helper wing added to the car.

You can never have enough hp until you have to much and it stops being fun

brad
_________________
Parts for sale: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=slalombuggy

Lucky Monkey Landspeed Racing
1962 Canadian Buggy 121.253mph - Bonneville 2012
1957 Beetle 118.642mph - Bonneville 2014
1957 LSR Buggy 130.583mph - Bonneville 2018
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Dale M.
Samba Member


Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 18583
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
Dale M. is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

I have about 110hp at the wheels (mild to medium built 2084) in 1400 pound fiberglass buggy...

Its been up to any challenge...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


THis was my auto-x car... Honest 120HP at the wheels (per chassis dyno) with 2180 and car weighed in at 1360 pounds...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It all comes down horse power to weight ratio, and how many $$$$ you have to spend....

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
FullFender
Samba Member


Joined: October 25, 2014
Posts: 613
Location: right here
FullFender is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:48 pm    Post subject: Re: How much HP do is really need for a Non Race bug and be happy Reply with quote

More hp, more fun





and more problems
_________________
Turbo 1776 Buggy

My TurboCharged 1915cc Build-Thread. Updates soon!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB