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Vanagon ignition wonít turn off
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Jnourada
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

Ok...

After years of off and on issues with my electrical and ignition systems (some stuttering and killing, some intermittent O2 and battery lights) I have recently fount that my Ď84 vanagon wonít turn off when the key is turned off and removed. It will beep and the dash lights will briefly go on (probably as the key passes the on position) but the engine and radio stay on. The only way to shut if off is to stall it by killing the engine (release the clutch with the brakes applied).

I replaced my ignition switch with high hopes but no luck. I have also tried hooking up the old switch to the little ignition harness and using without the key to see if I could elicit a different result, again with no luck.

Can any of the wizards of the samba suggest where to look next or a process to identify what is going on here?

Thanks

Jordan
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

Try unplugging the small blue wire that attaches to the back of the alternator.
No, I'm not joking, see if that stops the engine.
If it does we can go from there.

Mark
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dobryan
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

OP welcome to the samba and just so you know, Mark seems to have the entire Vanagon electrical system (all models) accessible in his brain. (I can barely remember which end is positive.) So he is a very good reference.
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Jnourada
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

Thatís what Iím talking about! Thanks for the help crazyvwvanman - it does indeed turn off if the small blue wire is unplugged from the back if the alternator...

Also, thanks dobryan, Iíve been creeping around for years finding all the answers to my questions- and then some- absolutely amazing community
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:05 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

Ok, some progress but you shouldn't think that it means a problem with the alternator or blue wire. That's not it.

Tell us about your van. What engine is in it and what has been changed or added recently?

Mark
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Jnourada
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

Thanks Mark,
Itís an Ď84 nearly stock vanagon, full camper- no accessory battery, original 1.9 L engine, probably around 200k (odometer stopped at 128k. A couple years ago I upgraded the head lights to LED and put in a new radio. I have replaced the brake master cylinder and in an attempt to fix some of the bucking and dying issues have done a new coil wire, a new used idle control unit and I also replaced the radiator and thermo switch... Most recently I have cleaned the grounds and did new spark plugs, new air filter and fuel filter.

Only other thing of note is that the alternator came detached from where it mounts to the motor and rattled around a little bit before I got it re-bolted and secured. It may also be of note that I have had intermittent issues with the wipers cutting out as well as the blower motor- neither of which have been an issue lately

Thank you
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:12 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

Jnourada wrote:
..... in an attempt to fix some of the bucking and dying issues have done a new coil wire....


I would suspect this work to be related to the problem. How did you run the new coil wire and did you add any relays at that time?

Beginning in 85 models VW added a diode to the instrument cluster to prevent the problem you are seeing. A simple fix for you might be to add such a diode, assuming everything else in the van electrical seems to be behaving.

On the back of the instrument cluster there is a 14 pin connector with wires to most pins. One of the wires is blue. You could put a 1 amp or 2 amp diode in the blue wire a few inches from the connector. Diodes have polarity so it must be put in the right direction for it to work.

Mark
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Jnourada
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

Sorry Mark,

I missed stated- it was actually the coil wire not the coil itselfÖ Do you think the coil may need to be replaced? Iíll do some research on testing the coil, any other thoughts?

Thank you!!
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

No I don't think it has anything to do with a bad coil. You said you ran a new coil wire. More details about that please.

Mark
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Jnourada
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

This was a job done by my local Van shop back on March 1 and itís just an OEM Bosch replacement that runs from the distributor to the coil- it doesnít look like anything else was touched, albeit a little dirty and dusty.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Something to do with the outgoing coil wiring?[/img]
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

That high voltage ignition wire isn't related to the problem. I thought you were talking about wiring to the coil. Something must have changed to cause the problem.

Mark
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Jnourada
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

The most recent projects were the plugs, fuel filter and oil filter- all done in 2-3 weeks preceding the current issue of not turning off. This issue started intermittently and now happens 100% of the time. No other work done or events of any kind except the oxs and batt lights would stay on intermittently on short drives shortly before the not turing off issue began.

I swung by the shop to talk to them yesterday but it turns out they just closed the doors after 40 years of working on old VWís
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

Ok, in the engine compartment near the coil is a black box with 2 relays in it. They should have 24 or 53 stamped on the ends. I would mark them and then carefully swap their positions. Be careful, there is always power to the relay sockets. Unhooking the battery ground cable may be wise.


Mark
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

FWIW...a clean, dry popsicle stick makes a great "relay puller" lever...

(Credit to Ahwanee...) Cool

- Dave
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Jnourada
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

Both 24ís no change when swapped

J
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Sgtpepper67
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

My vanagon did that once. There was a large relay in the engine compartment, one of the wires had come loose and was laying across another hot wire. It was back feeding power to the ignition circuit.
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Jnourada
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

Thanks Sgtpepper67 - Iíll Have to do a thorough search for any stray wires back there.
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Jnourada
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:33 am    Post subject: Re: Vanagon ignition wonít turn off Reply with quote

Update: after switching the relays I went for a little drive this morning- after about a mile going 30 it started bucking and cutting and died which it hasnít done in at least a couple months... restarted and drove back home with some more lurching but didnít die again- still wouldnít turn off... related?
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