Snap Placement Into 1967 Ghia Convertible Top Chrome Trim

[RCTScott]

Hello,

I know that there are a couple other snap placement threads but I could not find one specifically talking about where to place them when installing them into the chrome trim. Please, if this has been covered, then I apologize and hope that someone might direct me to the thread.

I am replacing my convertible top on my 1967 KG and have found that the original snaps were placed into the chrome trim and not into the metal area just behind the chrome trim as seen in later years. My understanding is that '67 is a transition year for this particular item, so there are two possible locations for the snap placement. It is dependent upon if the car was an early '67 (which mine is) where the snaps are installed into the chrome trim (see photos), or a later '67 where they are installed into the painted body metal just behind the chrome trim. The two photos attached here are from Rcooled from his original 1967 convertible prior to restoration, as well as the VW Parts Book.

I have seen some discussion about the later snap placement, but not on the earlier. In purchasing the chrome trim, both Chucks Convertible Parts and M&T MFG say to just install the chrome trim as original, but then to install the snaps into the pained body metal and not the trim. Also, neither of the aftermarket chrome trim pieces have the small countersunk screw that is depicted near the end of the bull-nose on the chrome trim as shown in the parts book diagram (see below).

Does anybody have the specs on where to place them if you were to install them into the chrome trim?

Also, is there an issue with installing them into the trim? Is the newer trim that is available not as robust as the original trim, thereby prohibiting the snap placement? It seems puzzling that the two suppliers of the chrome trim both say to not install the snaps into the trim.

I certainly understand that the wood bow is what holds the snap in and not the chrome trim, but if the aftermarket trim is more delicate than the original trim, I do wonder if it might split upon the compression when installing the snap.

One final question is that the parts book image shows #10 as white plastic 'saddles', or spacers, that sit underneath each male snap on the trim strip. Does anyone have a source for these? Or if anyone has an original one, I have the ability to 3D scan it and make a 3D printed version.

Thank you for the help.

Sincerely,

Scott

[crocteau]

[rcooled]

[RCTScott]

Wow, just wow what great responses!! Thank you.

Crocteau, I just looked at Sputnick60's thread and that was quite helpful. Thank you!

Rcooled, you have helped me so many times already and yet again you offer up more pearls of wisdom and precision. Really appreciate it!!

Can I trouble you for one more measurement if possible? What is the distance from the one body snap to the inset screw at the bull-nose of the chrome trim? I think that distance might also help an installer and make the definitive answer complete.

I called KGPR Airhead Parts and they weren't so sure that the chrome trim has the countersunk hole anymore. The person to check will be there tomorrow. I will let you know if that is the case and we might need to find another constant, such as the edge of the bull-nose of the trim. But lets hold off on that for now in hopes that it is the same as the one that you used.

You guys are awesome.

Scott



Scott

[sputnick60]

Hi Scott.

I’d like to add a picture in this thread for you.

This shows my car just after paint where I want to draw your attention to a couple of holes. At the front, labeled “hole for plastic trim” is a hole for fixing the folded plastic trim on top of the lock pillar. This takes a 12 or 13 mm tubular rivet as already discussed here.....
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3338846. .....and we note your worthwhile contributions to that. This trim goes all the way along the edge and covers the hole at the back labeled “holes for chrome dress trim” . This hole accepts the dome top stainless philips screw at the bullnose of the chrome trim that’s been the subject of this discussion. This can only be placed after the roof has been installed because the screw must go through the chrome trim, the roof material, the lock pillar trim and finally into the metal.

Here is a repost from my other thread showing the template I made to transfer the nail positions to the car. The hole for the bull nose is occupied with a temporary screw and stud to keep the template in place. A white marker twiddled in each hole was enough to mark the nail positions.

This is a picture showing an awl being used to create holes that would start the nails.

Further , this picture shows the bottom side of the trim with the template in place alongside the awl used to make the guide holes plus the tool used with a hammer to tap the trim into place. This tool is mentioned in the VW special tools book and in this instance was made by my trusted friend Kevin Ferguson and given to me in anticipation that I’d need it one day

If you buy the trim from KGPR, it will be straight and you will need to bend the trim in two axes from the near vertical at the car’s side to near horizontal at the car’s centerline. It’s okay to have a sizable gap in the centre because there is a dress clip that’s long enough to straddle 10mm.
Protect the car with a blanket taped to the back near the work. I also had a flat board that could be moved around to take the occasional slap from protruding nails.

To create new holes for the studs do so off the car. You don’t want to slip witha drill, The following steps are logical. 1: cover the target with masking tape. 2: Measure and mark the hole locations on the tape. 3: on an anvil or similar solid surface use a centre punch to mark the centre for the holes. 4: hold the trims in a flat vise with soft jaws on a drill press and drill small pilot holes with the drill press. Swap a larger drill to the required size. A counter sink is not required. You can use the dimensions already provided before bending the trim because its linearly the same, but it’s also not critical since the boot will get the buttons fitted to match the studs.

I started attaching the trim by locating the bullnose and it’s screw through the layers to the metal. Again it was the awl that’s used to poke a path through.

Instead of using a template that doesn’t flex maybe using something that’s flexible that can transfer the nail locations to the car. Possibly some masking tape laid reversed on the straight trim so the holes are perforated, then placed on the car whilst making sure holes miss the metal edge. Remember that the nail going in square means that the true angle moves from sideways to vertical relative to the car.

The complex angles actually work in your favour. There’s only a few nails that are in contact with the car as you work around the major bend. It’s possible to apply a bending force as you progress. The nails are hammered in as soon as they touch down while other ones are “still in the air”. The nails around the curve are close together but as you progress to the straighter top section they are further apart. Along the straight section they’re closer to where they need to be and easier to get in. You might use the awl progressively rather than doing all the holes in one shot. You might find the nails need to go in a slightly different place than determined by the template, if so, it’s probably best to let that occur but clear the way with the awl so the nail has a start past the body metal and into he tack bow.
Bon chance.
Nicholas
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[KGCoupe]

I can't help but wonder if there was a very good reason that Karmann made the mounting location switch, as they weren't really known to make changes just for the sake of change or style.

Do you suppose that the pressure necessary to get the boot snaps to properly mate with the snaps mounted to the car would be enough to eventually deform that chrome trim?

[sputnick60]

[rcooled]

[RCTScott]

[sputnick60]

The awl is used to make a path through the fabric past the metal edge and into the wood. With a guide hole made thus the nail can be inserted with confidence knowing it will hold in the right position before being hammered in fully.
I made each hole like that and removing the awl was just a matter of gripping it with pliers or vise grips and twisting it out


Nicholas
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[RCTScott]

Update on the screw to hold the bull-nose down. These two pictures confirm that 2,9 X 16 means 2.9mm X 16mm screw. You all probably knew that, but maybe some readers in the future will be like myself and not realize the obvious translation.

[RCTScott]

The KGPR trim came and I thought it would be nice to show the differences between the KGPR trim and the Chuck's Convertible Parts trim.


First, here is the KGPR trim with the correct screw:

Now here is a comparisson between the KGPR trim (top with the screw) and the Chuck's Convertible Parts trim:

I hope that this helps anyone in the future that might be looking at this trim.

Scott

[RCTScott]

Well, this chrome trim and snap placement has been a journey. I had already known that the shop that installed my top used a composite bow at the rear of my convertible top and not a wooden bow like I had asked. I know it was not ideal and they had lots of excuses, but we ended up trying to make the best of it as he is a friend. Most of you probably already know this, but for those who don't, the nails that hold in the chrome trim pull out of the composite material very easily. Literally when bending and forming one end of the trim, the nails were popping up at the other end. Ugh. So as opposed to making the shop remove the top and replace it with a wooden bow, I decided to think outside the box. My thought was to use 1" screws to hold the boot snaps in place, as opposed to the typical 3/8" screws. That way, the screws would now pass through the chrome trim and screw into the composite bow, which does hold easily in the composite material. So the screw were double purposed as they now hold both the trim and snaps in place, as opposed to the typical depth where they would only screw into the chrome trim. This worked beautifully.

I had to make one tiny addition that most people would either not catch nor care. I had to add one extra snap, directly through the center cover clip to assure that the chrome trim was held in place there. It also seems to balance out the boot as well. So in the end, I don't think anyone will notice that there is an extra snap and in all actuality, it kind of looks appropriate anyway. Either way, everything holds really well now.

One other not so well known part that I used here is the saddle washers that rcooled had 3D scanned. These saddle washers allow the flat underside of the snap to have a more balanced support and resist the lateral forces when the snaps are under a load. So this is yet another amazing part that rcooled had 3D scanned so we can now have a part that nobody manufactures. Just send the 3D file to Shapewise or any other 3D printing company online if you don't have access to a 3D printer, which now even most local libraries have these and can print them for pennies. It worked incredibly well.

Here are some images of the saddle washers:

And here are some images of the snaps installed. Please note the extra snap in the middle which is not necessary nor per original if you are using a wooden bow:

I hope that these tips help.

Scott

[sputnick60]

Nice work Scott.

I have a suggestion for improvement. The trim over the lock channel top should be under bottom edge of the roof fabric. By removing the bull nose screw and slipping the fabric in there so it is sandwiched between rather than the trim it can be remedied. These next two shots of my car just catch that detail so you can compare with your car.

Overall, your roof looks nice and tight and stretched in properly. Leave it up over winter so it settles into shape over the next few months

Nicholas
_________________
'66 Karmann Ghia Cabriolet...
'65 Porsche 356C Coupe...
2005 Mecedes Benz C180 Kompressor Estate
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

[RCTScott]

Wow, that tiny little tip made a huge difference. This is as far as I could pull it, but the whole section lays nicely now. Fantastic attention to detail Nicholas! Thank you!