Help: Stub Axle excessive play SOLVED: C-Clip Issue

[metropoj]

OK, so I started with some pulsing. Got into the rear end, at 515,000 kms on the clock, there were bad signs everywhere.

Pulled it all out, bearings shot, seals ripped and contamination to bearings.
All rear brakes and backing plate replaced, drums, cylinders, hardware kit, etc. Read lots to do it right.

Brakes worked out great on test trip, high pedal, etc ......

but one issue, the drums were interfering with the backing plates.

Go around a corner and they would start to rub, make an awful racket.

Read some more, turned down the outer edge of the rear drum to take a little off, fixed the passenger side.

Driver side, started doing the same, no dice. Definate rub to the backing plate.

So, I find a new issue, in and out axle stub movement is from 3/16" to over 1/4" on drivers side.


I reassembled the freshly greased bearing housing with the same spacer ( I know there is a newer one available but I don't know what was in there ), I torqued it down to 360 ft lbs.

Why would there still be in and out play ????

Shouldn't the stub axle and spare snug everything together nicely under that torque and take out the play ?

Not sure what to do next, soon will impact our 4 weeks of trips planned ...


ANy ideas please .....

ps, while I was disassembling, the stub axles were pretty loose. I was just able to push them out of the bearings ....
_________________
John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[Sodo]

The in/out is controlled by the ball bearing (the inboard bearing). Ball bearings have no in/out play.

Is the inboard bearing loose in the bearing housing? Such that the whole bearing is slopping in the housing?
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[metropoj]

It was pressed into place, then the circlip went in, then spacer from other side like the assembly pic , outer bearing, hub, tighten to 360. . Maybe circlip fell out of groove ? I guess I'd have to pull the housing to check. The stubs didnt have a hard time going in or out, probably worn after so many miles.

My understanding is that a tightened down assy should have little play as the spacer sets the gap .

Tomorrow I'll look to dis assemble the housing I guess 😫
_________________
John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[metropoj]

Before heading into work, I went out and pulled the Wheel hub off again to take a boo.

I pulled the outer bearing inner sleeve and compared with the old ones. I don't see any noticeable difference in height between old and new ...


Puzzled.

The stub axle moves in and out so freely that the inner bearing with about 2 kms on it would need to be totally loose with the circlip to move that easily ....

Can the spacer sleeve bind or something odd that would maybe cause something like this ?

I can't imagine that happening from looking at it during dis / re assembly.

Once tightened all up I suspected the space to be removed if the outer bearing was not pressed in far enough.

Wheel hub bottoming out ? The nut itself and hub do not move independently so that is tight ...
_________________
John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[Wellington]

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=717785&highlight=rear+bearing

As well see 42.4 in the Bently.
One the nut is torqued down, there should be no in out movement of the stub axle. Either you forgot the spacer, or the circlip.

[metropoj]

Well, I know at least the spacer is there because the outer bearing race was pressed tight against 'something' .. that something being the spacer, otherwise it would have fallen straight in.

My understanding is that the spacer gets sandwiched between the outer bearing race and the inner bearing race

I will know the condition of the circlip this evening when I tear the hub out. I will measure the spacer length too and compare the bearings once again to the old trashed ones.


_________________
John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[markswagen]

I would find replacement hubs, and rebuild into those.
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markswagen {mobile mechanic} san diego area all early VW's cared for.

619 201 0310

[metropoj]

Ya, I have have to go that route so I can ensure a trip departure this weekend.

I think it is physically possible to remove that spacer from the housing via the outer bearing without removing any bearings, correct ?
_________________
John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[Sodo]

OK here’s the only possible way I can imagine 3/16” shaft end play.
Kinda wild, and I’d think we’da heard about it before, if it was possible.
It would have come up in discussing TK’s cockamamie “rear wheel bearing preload“.

Is it _possible_ to assemble the hub with the roller bearing and ball bearing switched? Where the Roller bearing is inboard and the ball bearing outboard?

The “BALL bearing” is one complete unit. Its retained in the hub by the snap ring (inboard). The ball bearing controls the shaft end play and should be retained by the snap ring at the inboard location.

The “roller bearing” is the one that has the sleeve that slides into it. It should be outboard. The rollers can run anywhere on the outer surface of the sleeve.

=== Stay tuned for a message from the NLA REAR WHEEL HUB FOUNDATION ===

And then.... it seems your hubs might be a bit loose.

Have those hubs ever been sledged? These vans are 30 years old, someone, sometime, somewhere may have sledged that axle nut. Slug wrench tools are cheap and plentiful, and can be used in “poor ways” and “worse” ways. Every sledge hammer blow bears out on that “ring” of steel on the hub that holds the bearing outer race. That you “prefer” to hold the roller bearing “tight”. With just one thousandth of an inch of “stretch” the roller bearing will be loose in the bore.

As I’ve written before, nowhere else in the mechanical world ..... is sledgehammering on a precision rolling element allowed. Only on VW rear wheel bearings is it “popular”. It is an oddity and I’ve done it, because EVERYONE said its a normal way. And I knew it was wrong but I just thought all that stuff was “replaceable”. Those wild ‘90s..... they were scrapping vans for head gasket problems. Not anymore. Tight hubs are GOLD, good luck finding replacements.
_________________


'90 Westy EJ25, NEW oil rings (!) 2Peloquins, 3knobs, SyncroShop pressure-oiled pinion-bearing & GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox.
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered original gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[metropoj]

My assembly is the same as your picture below.

In fact, this morning I took the outer bearing inner sleeve out and placed it beside the old ones to see if the height was any different. It looked to be the same ...

Has it been sledged ? I would most certainly say yes that nut was sledged. PO replaced the trailing arms due to rust. The nut looked like someone took a chisel to get it moving the last time someone was in there.

I replaced with new nuts and used a pipe to take off old and put on new, jack stand supporting under the socket.

Now, I understand the smacking and what you are saying and I suspect that would be more for UP/DOWN play, not IN/OUT to the huge degree I'm seeing.

With Axleshaft / drum pushed 'in', complete grind with backing plate. When I pull on the drum, it pulls out a LOT and obviously clears.

I can't wait to get that Housing off because I am baffled to bits so far what happened !....
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John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[Wellington]

Good used one may be difficult to find ,,,,,but

https://burleymotorsports.net/product/billet-rear-bearing-housing/

Initially may seem expensive, but for a pair, brand new with bearings, not too bad.

[metropoj]

Boy, that make some beauty stuff, don't they !

Well, it was bugging me enough that i drove home for lunch and tore out the housing, etc. Looked fine, and then i decided to take a peek through the box of old bearings etc that I replaced ..

Hiding behind one of the rear bearing was the circlip . &%*^%*^*%

Winner of today's dumbass reassembly biff is ... me ! And here I thought I never win anything ... lol.

The in/out force managed to squeeze some grease out the back of the housing past the seal. I pried out the seal, put the cir-clip in the groove.

I'll find out later how things reassemble for play but I suspect that's it.

Damn ....
_________________
John.
86 TiiCo powered Westy.

[dobryan]

Good find! Sh!t happens.
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2010 Subaru EJ25 (Vanaru) and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

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