Unusual Sweep the Floor 2234 Build (With Dyno Video)

[74 Thing]

Hey Jeff,

Do you think your beehive springs assist a lot in your cool oil temp compared to dual valve springs?

[mark tucker]

try ceramic coating the chambers, piston tops,&ex part ex valve heads and intake valve face. then you can have rough so it keeps the fuel in suspension much better, add some timing, keep the heat where it belongs( in the chambers&out the exhaust) higher CR, leener carbs,cleaner burning, better mpg ,and make more power more eazely, more reliable. kep on spearmenting!!!

[Brian_e]

Piston rings on the cylinder walls are the highest point of friction inside of an engine. Which one of you two are gonna put a mirror shine on your cylinder walls??

Brian
_________________
So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok

Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
www.type-emotorsports.com

Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts

[Brian_e]

I am just gonna leave this here.....

#stirringthepot



Brian
_________________
So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok

Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
www.type-emotorsports.com

Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts

[jpaull]

[jpaull]

[vwracerdave]

Why do you want to waste your time and money experimenting with polishing chambers when it has been proven by hundreds of engine builders of all types of engines that a rough finish produces more power.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[jpaull]

[Brian_e]

Finish it up all polished nice and dyno it. See what you get for numbers. Then send me the heads and I will beat them up free of charge just like the ones in the picture! Then you will have a good A/B test. Hell...I will even pay the return shipping just to see the results!!

Brian
_________________
So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok

Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
www.type-emotorsports.com

Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts

[jpaull]

[Brian_e]

You pay for the parts and build the thing, and I will build the heads for it. I am an AA dealer. I will give you parts at my cost + shipping.

You build it, dyno it, pull the heads, and send them to me. I will beat them up and send them back. Re-assemble, and dyno again. After that you do whatever you want with the engine. Sell it to someone on here?

We can both run the heads on each of our flow benches to see how far off the numbers are from each other as well.

Here is what I would like to build.

1915cc
My 37x33 heads AA500 castings 155+ cfm.
web 163 cam
9.3cr .040" dh.
1.3 rockers
40idfs on straight manifolds.
light flywheel
1.5" header

Easy to assemble, and show people what a good 37mm intake is capable of.

Brian
_________________
So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok

Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
www.type-emotorsports.com

Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts

[jpaull]

[Brian_e]

I would love to try it myself for comparison if I had more time to experiment.
I am so backed up with suspension, heads and engines for customers I don't get to work on much else. That's why I was hoping to have you do the work.

I used to polish all of my chambers and exhaust ports up to 250gr. Certainly not mirrors like yours, but I did spend hours on them and made lots of dust. I did that for the first 5-10 engines. I got tired of that and started leaving them at 80gr cartridge roll finish, and they seemed to run better. I did this for a long time. Then I started researching rough finishes and went that way. Every engine I have done it on tunes easy, has super quick throttle reaponse, and seems to use less jetting. Even less on the accelerator pump shots. Not real scientific, but it's all I have based on quiet a few engines, and getting to test/tune most all of them in my own test car.

The 2332cc in my baywindow has super rough ports very similar to the picture I posted. The final jetting on it is 47.5 idles, 140 mains, 210 airs, and the pump rod nuts are less then 1/8" on the rod. 36mm vents in 44idfs. On our 2000mile road trip we got 22mpg at 70mph across Nebraska in a loaded baywindow. That was 12.0-13.5 across the board on the wideband and a NON-vac dist. Not sure what other people with similar setups are getting, but this is quite a bit less jet then I have used in previous large engines I built.

Just like everyone else here, I wish I had a dyno and more time to experiment and post the results. Then we would all be learning more.

Brian
_________________
So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok

Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
www.type-emotorsports.com

Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts

[Floating VW]

[Floating VW]

[mark tucker]

horizontally gas porting and .030"rings will make more power.and seal better too. there are all kinds of stuff that can help power and reliability too. you could possiably take all the tension out of a set of rings and gass port it, but I dont know how that will work.

[jpaull]

[jpaull]

[Alstrup]

Ohhh, dimpelled intake surfaces. That´s another one of those cans of worms. The first time (that I know of) this was up was in the late 60íes when BMW was working with the 2002 Tii. The exersize was of course to gain power, but what they found, with the porting techiniques and knowledge they had the time, was that it did not improve hp., but it helped the engine to improve fuel mix and torque in the lower to mid rpms. As injectors and injector position became better the need for this costly surface treat became not nessessary to get the same end result. In recent years this has surfaced again. I think it was Edelweis tuning that brought it up again in an effort to stand out from the crowd in the BMW and motorcycle world, also claiming 5% improved flow over smooth surface ports. Some Honda tuners claim the same. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6v2wpk4mjo But do they make more power (?)

Now, in a carburetted engine some of it begins to make a little sense, because "we" have the issue of a fuel mix that is not especially good atomized in the lower rpms. If you want to take advantage of that you should keep the port rough in the low speed areas and smooth in the high speed areas. That requires a little knowledge about how the mix behaves in an intake port, but this is actually beneficial. In fact when I build my Std plus engines I leave the surfaces raw almost all over to get a better mix and power in the lower rpms.

Raw or smooth surfaces in the combustion chamber. I for one really don´t know. There can be pro´s and con´s to both. On a freshly built engine I can see that there may be differences. On an engine that has seen some miles I doubt you will be able to measure much of a difference due to carbon build up. I think it is more beneficial to both power, temperature and fuel consumption to get the combo right and to have a good chamber shape to get a good mix and a burn that does not require a lot of ignition timing. That reduces the need for fuel due to simple efficiency and reduced pumping losses.

Here is a couple of articles discussing why they left it out in Formula1 years back.
http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/dimpled_surface_finish.html
http://speed.academy/10-myths-of-cylinder-head-porting/

[Brian_e]

I didn't have any reason to think my 2332cc was down on power. I have seen what quite a few different engines will do on the long hill behind my house, and this one is one of the more impressive of the 15 or so big strokers and 15-20 smaller engines I have driven up the hill.

I feel if the engine can make more power while requiring less fuel, it is obviously more efficient.

I agree with Torben's comment on rough port texture helping low and midrange torque the most. I have been building my engines different for the last few years now. I focus on highest average torque across the board, and I don't even care what the peak HP number is. I have found engines that make a pile of torque before 4000rpm are usually quicker up the hill, more fun to drive around town, much more pleasant to drive on twisty mountain roads, etc. This is the area I am focused on, and the increased fuel mix far outweighs high RPM heat retention in my mind.

Remember everyone...torque pulls trailers, climbs mountains and wins races....HP sells cars to those who don't know any better.

Here is a really good article from a very very experienced engine builder who has been building engines longer then most here have been alive. Myself included. The port texture stuff is down toward the bottom, but the whole thing is a good read. He has done real life A-B-A dyno testing more then once on this topic.
https://hotrodenginetech.com/pipemax-creator-larry-meaux-on-race-engine-head-porting/

Jeff, while your heads are off can you measure a few things for me? I would like to compare a few things on your heads with others I have bought or built myself, and run on different engines.

-Intake port centerline. I use a piece of solder with the valve installed. On the long side wall, go from the back of the valve to the intake flange. bend the solder so it conforms nicely to the port wall. Make a mark on the solder. Next do the same thing on the short side port wall. Flatten the solder back out and add the two marked lengths of solder together and divide by 2. This will be the "average" intake port centerline length. You can also do this with pinstripe tape.

-Intake port volume. I like to use washer fluid, and I have a small piece of plexi with a hole to cover the port flange. Just like measuring chambers.

-Intake flow from .250"-.550" @ 28" with the intake on and a radius at the top of the manifold.

Brian
_________________
So more or less the lazier and stupider you want to be, the nicer quality parts you need to buy.
-Modok

Narrowed beams, Drop adjustable spring plates, Bus disk brake and IRS kits.
www.type-emotorsports.com

Type E Engine Parts and Supplies
https://type-emotorsports.com/collections/engine-parts