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1974 Muffler Change-Help Please!
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Relyt
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

The rear breastplate tin will need modifications to clear the full flow oil filter setup. Expect cutting, hammering, and using pliers.

And for the record, thereís no such thing as high performance cooling tin, to get more cooling you would have to get more cool air. The best cooling tin is a complete set of original.

What everyone seemed to skip over is:
What are you doing with this car? Daily driver? Weekend fun? Road trips? Car shows?
What do you want to do to the car? Learn how to do a full rebuild? Just tinker on little things here and there? Customize it? Or just drive it?

The answer to those questions will really determine how urgent things are and how much work is worth putting into it.
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imsjry
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

Relyt wrote:
What everyone seemed to skip over is:
What are you doing with this car? Daily driver? Weekend fun? Road trips? Car shows?
What do you want to do to the car? Learn how to do a full rebuild? Just tinker on little things here and there? Customize it? Or just drive it?

The answer to those questions will really determine how urgent things are and how much work is worth putting into it.


Honestly, I bought it for nostalgia and local, weekend driving in the summer months only. This will be stored in the winter. I specifically looked for one in great shape with a newish engine so i was not in this exact situation, because i knew I'd be in over my head.

That said, thank goodness for this site! You guys are awesome so far!
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Relyt
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

Personally, if itís just a fun weekend car, I wouldnít worry about it too much. The lack of proper cooling will shorten the life but youíll be putting such low miles on it.

So take a breath and work on one thing at a time at your own pace. Or if you donít really want to be working on the car just save a bit of money each month to go towards a new turn key engine. Roy of Mofoco.com commented in your thread here and heís a good reputable engine builder.
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Rome
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

See how well you can observe details in the engine compartment with the camera flash on? Very Happy

With so many cooling tins missing from the rear of the engine, I wonder if the cooling tins are present on the FRONT? The fan shroud and cooling system on your engine is "most likely" a "doghouse" system. The engine oil cooler is positioned on the left half of the engine. The hot air coming off the cooler to the left is diverted downward and forward via 2 sheetmetal ducts. You can easily feel for these ducts (engine off and cold) by reaching over the top of the left air cleaner towards the middle of the engine. You can also aim the camera in that area, and we should be able to see if the 2 ducts are in place. Hopefully so.

Here's a shot of the 2 ducts in place- the "triangular" duct above the "exit chute".
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


If those 2 ducts are not in place, you can see/feel the oil cooler inside its shroud cover-
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


4 of the 6 missing engine tins noted beforehand can easily be installed with the engine in place, using just a flat-blade screwdriver and those tin screws I listed before. One of the 4 tins requires removing the crankshaft pulley, so that you would need a large socket or adjustable wrench to get the large bolt off, then a pulley puller to remove the pulley without damaging it. You can keep the current, chromed fan shroud and cylinder cover tins for now and enjoy driving the car for the summer.

You can also fit an engine perimeter seal which does not require the engine to be removed. You first fit the 4 pieces of tin, then push the seal down into the gap between the tin edges and the body. Its a foam seal with an "H" profile, that you turn sideways and push into the gap. It's from a VW bus. This seal is about 3x as $$ as a proper Type 1 rubber seal, but for that you need to remove the engine. This bus seal is just as effective, and will get you driving with much more peace of mind much quicker. http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Engine-Compartment-Se...11-225.htm

It appears as though the carb linkage crossbar has the arm for the throttle cable clocked 1/6 too high. The throttle cable is being pulled upward out of its tube with the carbs at idle position. The cable is thereby rubbing on the top lip of the metal tube that goes through the fan shroud. With this increased friction, it's possible that's one reason why there are 2 return springs. It's not difficult to reclock that arm 1/6 downward so that the barrel nut at the end lines up better with the throttle cable. You need to remove the crossbar from the carbs, use a small Allen wrench to loosen the throttle arm, slide it off one end of the crossbar, reclock it, slide it back down to the original position above the throttle cable, and gently tighten the Allen.

Back to the muffler. Your engine makes more power than a stock engine. Fitting a stock muffler will quiet the engine down. You'll lose "maxiumum potential" power, but you may still have a net gain over a stock engine due to the other modifications. If you install "taper tips" into the stock muffler, you reduce the overall restrictiveness slightly compared to original style "pea shooter" tips. http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Chrome-Tapered-Tail-Pipes-T1-Pair-p/tapered-tail-pipes.htm
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73SlowBug
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

Your aftermarket exhaust has heat risers, but they aren't blocked off. I think that's part of your noise problem. I have the same muffler, and it is pretty loud, but yours isn't completely "muffled" with those ports open. Block off those ports and see if it helps the noise at all.

That's something easy to try first.

The tin is all pretty inexpensive. Since you don't have any rust, this shouldn't be too expensive or painful l to get your car in top shape. You just need engine tin pieces mostly.
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imsjry
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

@Rome,

Wow thank you so much for your informative post! I did try to take some pictures aiming down the back of the cooling tin but not sure what you can tell from these. I will try to get my arm down there to feel for what you mentioned.

I think I will attempt the stock muffler i bought. Any ideas what to use to plug up the holes for the heat risers I wont be using? Or if you even have to plug them?

Thanks again all!

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imsjry
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:04 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

73SlowBug wrote:
Your aftermarket exhaust has heat risers, but they aren't blocked off. I think that's part of your noise problem. I have the same muffler, and it is pretty loud, but yours isn't completely "muffled" with those ports open. Block off those ports and see if it helps the noise at all.

That's something easy to try first.



Thanks! So sorry to be dumb, but where do you see the heat risers not blocked off?

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

imsjry wrote:
73SlowBug wrote:
Your aftermarket exhaust has heat risers, but they aren't blocked off. I think that's part of your noise problem. I have the same muffler, and it is pretty loud, but yours isn't completely "muffled" with those ports open. Block off those ports and see if it helps the noise at all.

That's something easy to try first.



Thanks! So sorry to be dumb, but where do you see the heat risers not blocked off?


In this picture, just left of the large black hose. See the silver 'plate' which has two holes through it on each side with a rust colored center spot? It is connected to the silver exhaust pipe. Just to the rear(towards rear of the car) of the shiny chrome cover seen in this picture as well.

That's the heat riser. Also there is one on the other side.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


heat riser block off plates:
https://www.jbugs.com/product/3447.html
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Last edited by AlmostHeavenWV_VW on Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:24 am; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:19 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

No front engine cooling tin either, or thermostat linkage, likely no thermostat or flaps. Again, your first stop should be http://awesomepowdercoat.com/. There's no avoiding this.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

So giving the person who installed the engine the benefit of the doubt, what would possibly be the reason he didn't install the Air Tin parts? I mean, why would someone who loves and works on multiple Bugs, go through all the trouble of restoring one and miss such an important, well known thing? It just makes no sense to me.
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Glenn Premium Member
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:30 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

Heat risers are closed. They come that way so you're OK.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:18 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

AlmostHeavenWV_VW wrote:
imsjry wrote:
73SlowBug wrote:
Your aftermarket exhaust has heat risers, but they aren't blocked off. I think that's part of your noise problem. I have the same muffler, and it is pretty loud, but yours isn't completely "muffled" with those ports open. Block off those ports and see if it helps the noise at all.

That's something easy to try first.



Thanks! So sorry to be dumb, but where do you see the heat risers not blocked off?


In this picture, just left of the large black hose. See the silver 'plate' which has two holes through it on each side with a rust colored center spot? It is connected to the silver exhaust pipe. Just to the rear(towards rear of the car) of the shiny chrome cover seen in this picture as well.

That's the heat riser. Also there is one on the other side.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


heat riser block off plates:
https://www.jbugs.com/product/3447.html


Lots of times, on aftermarket headers, these risers are there but have to be drilled out to be open. It also looks as if they have been welded up. THe lack of carbon/soot suggests that these have not been drilled so there is no reason for the block off plates.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

But if he replaces the existing muffler with a stock muffler the heat riserconnection will have to be blocked because his intake manifold lacks the connections.

I would suggest cutting two sheet metal covers to fit and use the gasket that comes with the muffler
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

^^ I agree. However, you still have the "chore" of drilling two 1/4" holes in each cover so that you can fasten it with two bolts into a stock muffler. Factory bolt size at that location is M6 x 1.0, about 3/4" long. Or, you can buy this cover set, made out of approx. 1/8" metal and already drilled for the mounting bolts.
http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Pre-Heat-Riser-Block-Off-Kit-Pair-p/pre-heat-block-off-kit.htm

OP, you photo'd the right side of the engine and shroud. The oil cooler and cover tin are on the LEFT side towards the front of the car. Just stand at the left rear fender and aim inwards, mirror image of what you did on this last set of photos.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

Rome wrote:
^^
OP, you photo'd the right side of the engine and shroud. The oil cooler and cover tin are on the LEFT side towards the front of the car. Just stand at the left rear fender and aim inwards, mirror image of what you did on this last set of photos.


Ok not sure if these pictures did the job or not.

I also think I have bigger issues then the Air Tin and muffler swap. Took her for drive tonight and lots of sputtering when accelerating in all gears with gassy smelling exhaust after the sputters at times. Itís much cooler tonight here then any time Iíve driven it if that matters at all.

For more reference, I found out the seller restored the body but the engine was in the car when he got it.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:40 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

To answer your question of why someone who loves and works on Bugs would not install the tins, I can only guess that he doesnít love one he intends to sell, nor does he care as much as you think he does.

You may be measuring the former ownerís character, using your own sense of right and wrong. What others do, you may not do.

The thing is, he screwed up. You donít have to question why. Itís not a big mystery, and it doesnít matter why. He just screwed up, and if you keep trying to rationalize why he didnít, youíll screw up, too.

I had a number of things wrong with my bug when I first got it. I didnít question why the previous owner didnít do these things correctlyóI just fixed them.

Sometimes, you just have to believe the facts placed before you, even if theyíre inconvenient. Get the tins you need and install them. Work on the running of the engine once you have it protected from overheating.

Tim
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

OP, it is in your best interest to pull the motor. Pull it and get all the proper seals and tins in there. It's not that hard, don't be intimidated. Also, don't be an idiot like the previous owner and fry the motor trying to see if it will fix itself Wink

You'll be glad you did.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:33 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

That bottom photo shows an exposed oil cooler, which means more missing tin work.

Your best bet, as others have suggested, is to remove the engine and get all the tin on it properly.

I know it seems overwhelming, but it is not terribly hard to do. We aren't trying to overwhelm you, we are all just pointing out problems that are solvable, and that will help your experience be enjoyable! It will take a little bit of work to get there, but then you'll have a bug that is dependable and fun.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

Thanks all for the responses!

The Air Tin install is first on my list. I made the mistake of taking her for a short spin last night and the engine was sputtering when accelerating after shifting gears and had big gassy smell.

Would that be a symptom of overheating?

Trying to install the stock muffler is not low on the priority list, especially since the remote oil filer will be in the way of the heat riser hardware on the muffler.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: 1974 Muffler Change-Help Please! Reply with quote

imsjry wrote:


The Air Tin install is first on my list. I made the mistake of taking her for a short spin last night and the engine was sputtering when accelerating after shifting gears and had big gassy smell.

Would that be a symptom of overheating?


Not necessarily, it sounds like an engine in a poor state of tune more than anything.

Get ready to learn about valve adjustments, setting points, ignition timing, and carb tuning + balancing Very Happy
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