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Rockwood
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2008
Posts: 133
Location: San Diego
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 Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 7:58 am Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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| Mike E. wrote: |
| gilmarlin wrote: |
| I have Tweed trailing arms and had the whole front end dismantled. I inspected everything and nothing looked tweeked and it all fit together nicely. I had close to the same gap between the upper trailing arm and my straight edge (@6mm) and used the recommended number of shims top and bottom. When I put the tires on it looked like this ( / = \ ). I remeasured everything, had the car level and used a bubble gauge to re set the shims. I believe the spindles are machined wrong and the only way to correct the angle was shimming it. Of course, when you attempt to tighten the link pins down it begins to bind. The Tweed spindles weren't shimmed at all when I got the car and I corrected that, however they were already worn and I planned on rebuilding them. When I discovered that I'd have to have a machine shop fabricate the bushings I decided to buy the LR stuff. So far it's been a comedy of errors trying to get them to work right... |
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1718078.jpg
Looks like the guy running these spindles in the photo above has similar camber to you.
Since you have checked the offset on your trailing arms and it looks right, you should be able to check the spindle itself to determine exactly how much camber is built into it. |
Had the same problem with mine and figured I'd post here. My Tweed arms combined with the LR Combo spindles resulted in 6*, SIX DEGREES, of negative camber. I had to shim it quite a bit to get it to a more tolerable, but still excessive for dirt, 3*. I think the LR spindles are meant to be used with LR arms (which are even as noted above). No binding, but we'll see how long my bushings last...
_________________
"And another thing, when I gun the motor, I want people to think the world is coming to an end." - Homer Simpson |
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fordfreak
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2009
Posts: 58
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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You cannot adjust camber with shims. The camber is built into the spindles by the angle of the link pin holes in the king pin. If you try to go against this even in the slightest you will oval your bushings and ruin your king pin and link pins.
It doesnt matter what arms you use with the latest rage spindles. Camber will always be the same. The shims are there to take up gap from the differences in the arm widths and nothing more. |
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gilmarlin
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2019
Posts: 47
Location: LA MESA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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| Rockwood wrote: |
Had the same problem with mine and figured I'd post here. My Tweed arms combined with the LR Combo spindles resulted in 6*, SIX DEGREES, of negative camber. I had to shim it quite a bit to get it to a more tolerable, but still excessive for dirt, 3*. I think the LR spindles are meant to be used with LR arms (which are even as noted above). No binding, but we'll see how long my bushings last... |
Thanks for posting, now I don't feel like I'm crazy or something.  Lynn Chenowth came by yesterday and looked at it and agreed that my car is indeed set up correctly and that there is nothing I can do to remedy the excessive negative camber. These spindles are sold by several on line stores and at Latest Rage itself here in San Diego, no where did I read that they must be paired with LR trailing arms. I guess it's possible that Tweed drills their trailing arms and link pin carrier differently, but the LR trailing arms get bad reviews and I'm not buying some cheep trailing arms to make my cheep spindles work... |
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Rockwood
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2008
Posts: 133
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:18 am Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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| fordfreak wrote: |
You cannot adjust camber with shims. The camber is built into the spindles by the angle of the link pin holes in the king pin. If you try to go against this even in the slightest you will oval your bushings and ruin your king pin and link pins.
It doesnt matter what arms you use with the latest rage spindles. Camber will always be the same. The shims are there to take up gap from the differences in the arm widths and nothing more. |
The angle of the link pin holes takes into account the vertical angle of the entire spindle as well. If you mount a spindle designed for arms spaced evenly, you will oval the link pin or beam bushings because they are no longer parallel with the holes in the arm.
Without adding shims to the top arm, I had to run the link pin nuts loose to allow it to cycle, which resulted in 6* of negative camber.
_________________
"And another thing, when I gun the motor, I want people to think the world is coming to an end." - Homer Simpson |
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fordfreak
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2009
Posts: 58
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:25 am Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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| Rockwood wrote: |
| fordfreak wrote: |
You cannot adjust camber with shims. The camber is built into the spindles by the angle of the link pin holes in the king pin. If you try to go against this even in the slightest you will oval your bushings and ruin your king pin and link pins.
It doesnt matter what arms you use with the latest rage spindles. Camber will always be the same. The shims are there to take up gap from the differences in the arm widths and nothing more. |
The angle of the link pin holes takes into account the vertical angle of the entire spindle as well. If you mount a spindle designed for arms spaced evenly, you will oval the link pin or beam bushings because they are no longer parallel with the holes in the arm.
Without adding shims to the top arm, I had to run the link pin nuts loose to allow it to cycle, which resulted in 6* of negative camber. |
Where do.you have your shims? On the bottom or top? |
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Rockwood
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2008
Posts: 133
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:26 am Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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| gilmarlin wrote: |
| Rockwood wrote: |
Had the same problem with mine and figured I'd post here. My Tweed arms combined with the LR Combo spindles resulted in 6*, SIX DEGREES, of negative camber. I had to shim it quite a bit to get it to a more tolerable, but still excessive for dirt, 3*. I think the LR spindles are meant to be used with LR arms (which are even as noted above). No binding, but we'll see how long my bushings last... |
Thanks for posting, now I don't feel like I'm crazy or something. Lynn Chenowth came by yesterday and looked at it and agreed that my car is indeed set up correctly and that there is nothing I can do to remedy the excessive negative camber. These spindles are sold by several on line stores and at Latest Rage itself here in San Diego, no where did I read that they must be paired with LR trailing arms. I guess it's possible that Tweed drills their trailing arms and link pin carrier differently, but the LR trailing arms get bad reviews and I'm not buying some cheep trailing arms to make my cheep spindles work... |
How much camber did you end up with?
_________________
"And another thing, when I gun the motor, I want people to think the world is coming to an end." - Homer Simpson |
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fordfreak
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2009
Posts: 58
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:32 am Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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[quote="gilmarlin"]
| Rockwood wrote: |
, I'm not buying some cheep trailing arms to make my cheep spindles work... |
Have you even ran on them yet?? They are incredible spindles and super durable! There are many race cars using them and i have beat the hell out of mine not one problem. Only thing j reccomend is run orings under the king pin washers to keep the grease at peace.
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Rockwood
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2008
Posts: 133
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:56 am Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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| fordfreak wrote: |
| Where do.you have your shims? On the bottom or top? |
On top.
Nice buggy, btw. Just had to retire my 4LWD frame (torsion housing cracked beyond repair) and moved everything over to a Bugpack 2+2 frame (back seat area is now where the radiator, UMP, fuel tank, etc sit for better weight distribution).
_________________
"And another thing, when I gun the motor, I want people to think the world is coming to an end." - Homer Simpson |
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fordfreak
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2009
Posts: 58
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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Thank you. Yea this thing has A LOT of rework and added tube.
So you dont have any shims on the bottom then? |
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Rockwood
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2008
Posts: 133
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 11:05 am Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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| fordfreak wrote: |
Thank you. Yea this thing has A LOT of rework and added tube.
So you dont have any shims on the bottom then? |
Just one so the arm isn't riding directly on the bushing.
_________________
"And another thing, when I gun the motor, I want people to think the world is coming to an end." - Homer Simpson |
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gilmarlin
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2019
Posts: 47
Location: LA MESA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 3:52 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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| fordfreak wrote: |
Have you even ran on them yet?? They are incredible spindles and super durable! There are many race cars using them and i have beat the hell out of mine not one problem. Only thing j reccomend is run orings under the king pin washers to keep the grease at peace.
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Yes, I went around the block and didn't like the noises the tires made when I did a u turn. Trust me, they are shimmed correctly and look nothing like your front end. What kind of trailing arms are you running?
Here's my original thread... https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...mp;start=0 |
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fordfreak
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2009
Posts: 58
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Thu Oct 24, 2019 4:49 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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| I made my own 4 over arms. |
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gilmarlin
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2019
Posts: 47
Location: LA MESA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 9:53 am Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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| fordfreak wrote: |
| I made my own 4 over arms. |
How much offset is there between the top and bottom arm or are they even??? |
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fordfreak
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2009
Posts: 58
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:51 am Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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| gilmarlin wrote: |
| fordfreak wrote: |
| I made my own 4 over arms. |
How much offset is there between the top and bottom arm or are they even??? |
The bottom is 3/16" wider than the top. To help fill the gap due to the kingpin angle. I have one shim on top and about 4 on the bottom.
If i didnt make them wider on bottom id probably need 12 shims or so. |
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fordfreak
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2009
Posts: 58
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2019 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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Rockwood
Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2008
Posts: 133
Location: San Diego
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| Posted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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^^^
Beautiful.
_________________
"And another thing, when I gun the motor, I want people to think the world is coming to an end." - Homer Simpson |
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gilmarlin
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2019
Posts: 47
Location: LA MESA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:39 am Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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I gave up on the LR spindles. Buggy Works in Lakeside Ca. had a set of link pin bushings for my old Tweed spindles (probably the last ones on earth). Everything is back to normal and the car drives and handles great. I believe that the Tweed trailing arms are drilled slightly different and must be used with Tweed spindles to achieve a normal stance.
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fordfreak
Samba Member
Joined: September 21, 2009
Posts: 58
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 1:29 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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| gilmarlin wrote: |
| I believe that the Tweed trailing arms are drilled slightly different and must be used with Tweed spindles to achieve a normal |
I'm sorry, but this is not true. Camber is directly related to the angle of the link pin hole in the king pin. It has nothing to do with the arms.
All arm end holes are parallel to each other.
**with the exception to tweeds fucked up arms. Their fixture was off for many years** |
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gilmarlin
Samba Member
Joined: September 16, 2019
Posts: 47
Location: LA MESA
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| Posted: Sun Nov 17, 2019 4:59 pm Post subject: Re: Latest Rage combo spindles |
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[quote="fordfreak"]
| gilmarlin wrote: |
I'm sorry, but this is not true. Camber is directly related to the angle of the link pin hole in the king pin. It has nothing to do with the arms.
All arm end holes are parallel to each other.
**with the exception to tweeds fucked up arms. Their fixture was off for many years** |
So, if my arms are f'd up, then my spindles must be f'd up to match, because they went together perfectly with the recommended number of shims to offset and I have about 1 degree of negative camber. I may be wrong about the arms causing my problem and I agree that camber is built into the link pin holes of the spindle and can't be adjusted, however if the link pin holes in the trailing arms are not right, the whole assembly would be effected + or -... |
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