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tattooed_pariah
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Joined: April 24, 2006
Posts: 2064
Location: El Cajon, CA
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 Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:09 pm Post subject: Weber window fans |
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As I'm battling the radiator and it's electric fans on another project car, a thought occurred to me..
a lot of us have weber windows, and with the gentleman who recently designed a duct to ram air in that area, I was wondering about the benefit or downfalls of small, but high CFM fans, PULLING air out of weber windows?
Now, I don't want to start a damn war about "the germans designed the engine compartment exactly as it needed to be! stop messing with perfection!" I'm just posing an idea for CONSTRUCTIVE criticism..
My thinking (with a TOTAL lack of engineering background..) is a radiator fan works by pulling air through the radiator from the engine side, so would the same idea work to pull air away from the engine into the wheel well? you'd still have intake from the louvers on your hood and the louvers below the rear window, but now you'd have something pulling the extra hot air away from everything..
I know you'd have to protect them from road debris, but would it work in theory?
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'72 Volksrod |
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bsairhead
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Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 4547
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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| Pushing air into the the motor compartment might help, pulling air from the fan shroud would be a bad idea. |
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tattooed_pariah
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Joined: April 24, 2006
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Location: El Cajon, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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| bsairhead wrote: |
| Pushing air into the the motor compartment might help, pulling air from the fan shroud would be a bad idea. |
it was my understanding that the inbound air arrives from the top of the engine compartment whereas these exhaust fans would be located somewhere nearer to the bottom. so any air being pulled out should have already flowed past the fan shroud, but yes, i agree that would be a major concern
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Floating VW
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Joined: April 28, 2015
Posts: 1628
Location: The South Zone
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:04 pm Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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Hah! I don't think anyone's ever accused me of being a "gentleman" before, but I'm the guy with the air ducts.
Pulling air from the engine compartment is an interesting concept, but I think the biggest problem you'll run into is competition from the cooling fan in the fan shroud, and the intake manifold(s) on the engine. Those louvers only allow so much air into the engine bay, after all.
I've even heard of large displacement engines running out of air at high RPM, just from the amount of air the intakes were sucking in.
Plus, there is the added problem of creating a vacuum at the back the car, which is bad for aerodynamic drag.
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modok
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Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 27750
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:28 pm Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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| Even on your water cooled car..... you will find the shrouding around the radiator is crucial to making it work right, and the fans are only useful at low speeds. |
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tattooed_pariah
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Joined: April 24, 2006
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Location: El Cajon, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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| modok wrote: |
| Even on your water cooled car..... you will find the shrouding around the radiator is crucial to making it work right, and the fans are only useful at low speeds. |
so maybe low cfm fans that only kick on when temps reach a certain degree? so if you are stuck in SoCal traffic and idling a lot not going anywhere they can help pull some hot air away..
either way, from all points brought up, it sounds like this is in fact a stupid idea..
VERY MUCH appreciated from everyone for not turning this into the same old argument.. 
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tattooed_pariah
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Joined: April 24, 2006
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Location: El Cajon, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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| Floating VW wrote: |
Hah! I don't think anyone's ever accused me of being a "gentleman" before, but I'm the guy with the air ducts.
Pulling air from the engine compartment is an interesting concept, but I think the biggest problem you'll run into is competition from the cooling fan in the fan shroud, and the intake manifold(s) on the engine. Those louvers only allow so much air into the engine bay, after all.
I've even heard of large displacement engines running out of air at high RPM, just from the amount of air the intakes were sucking in.
Plus, there is the added problem of creating a vacuum at the back the car, which is bad for aerodynamic drag. |
yeah, hadn't really thought about the fight between carb intakes trying to get air and fans pulling air away, good point.
I haven't chimed in on your thread, but your work there is incredible looking and your follow up on measurements is awesome! thanks for doing what you did!
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
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Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:13 pm Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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pariah I'm not trying to be mean. I don't see it working. People have been modifying and hot rodding VW's for over 60 years now. I promise if your idea had any merit somebody a long time ago would have already made it work. Sorry just my common sense opinion.
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tattooed_pariah
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Joined: April 24, 2006
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Location: El Cajon, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| pariah I'm not trying to be mean. I don't see it working. People have been modifying and hot rodding VW's for over 60 years now. I promise if your idea had any merit somebody a long time ago would have already made it work. Sorry just my common sense opinion. |
no harm felt
I was telling my wife, I always see weber windows, but have never seen this discussion, and i felt like i was gonna start a shit post.. but I'm glad it stayed objective and civil.
everyone is right, i don't think it will work, but for a second it seemed like a feasible decent idea..
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Chickensoup
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Location: Good Hope, GA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:49 pm Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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1 time i thot i culd restore a vw chassis for under $200  now im nearing 2k 
next cooling attempt,
a cooler full of dry ice with a hose running from the intake to the chest 
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Floating VW
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Joined: April 28, 2015
Posts: 1628
Location: The South Zone
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:27 am Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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| tattooed_pariah wrote: |
| I haven't chimed in on your thread, but your work there is incredible looking and your follow up on measurements is awesome! thanks for doing what you did! |
No problem!
| Chickensoup wrote: |
. . . next cooling attempt,
a cooler full of dry ice with a hose running from the intake to the chest |
It's sounds crazy, but I've actually seen something very similar to this at the drag strip. Several people were doing it, as a matter of fact.
I've also seen more than one Ford coyote engine gain 100+ bhp just from adding a simple cold-air intake and tweaking the tune on the ECU. Now that's crazy!
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tattooed_pariah
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Joined: April 24, 2006
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Location: El Cajon, CA
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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| Floating VW wrote: |
| Chickensoup wrote: |
. . . next cooling attempt,
a cooler full of dry ice with a hose running from the intake to the chest |
It's sounds crazy, but I've actually seen something very similar to this at the drag strip. Several people were doing it, as a matter of fact.
I've also seen more than one Ford coyote engine gain 100+ bhp just from adding a simple cold-air intake and tweaking the tune on the ECU. Now that's crazy! |
I coulda sworn the Roadkill guys did an episode calling back to the drag guys that would cover their intakes in ice cubes to cool it.. and if i remember right (I might not..) when they tested on a dyno, it actually DID raise HP but not enough for it to be worth the effort..
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txoval
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Joined: January 23, 2004
Posts: 3886
Location: The Woodlands, TX
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:09 pm Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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| Yes, pretty common practice on V8 cars...bags of ice on the intake manifold |
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15604
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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| txoval wrote: |
| Yes, pretty common practice on V8 cars...bags of ice on the intake manifold |
BS. The Ricers do it too at the track.
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2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
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Chickensoup
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2020 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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lol it was a joke guys
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earthquake
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Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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Has any body ever mounted a Vacuum gauge on their deck lid and and done a high speed pass to see if there is a vacuum in the engine compartment, you could route the gauge to the dash with a long tube or mount a GoPo on the deck lid to watch the gauge.
eQ
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
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Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:50 am Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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Yes it has been done. It is amazing how much negative pressure is in the engine compartment of a Bug with factory louvers and a big stroker dual carb engine.
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Lingwendil
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tattooed_pariah
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Weber window fans |
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| Lingwendil wrote: |
I'm thinking cutting some holes under the liscense plate may be a better idea.
I do have spare decklid to clean up  |
that's actually fairly common too, just saw a guy locally who found some louvers somewhere and cut holes for em..
I wasn't at the meet so I don't have any details, just saw the pic from the uploads..
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Lingwendil
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