Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Csp linkage rods to short for 2276
Page: Previous  1, 2
Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jpaull
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3649
Location: Paradise, Ca
jpaull is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Dec 27, 2020 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Csp linkage rods to short for 2276 Reply with quote

I have 2 sets of cross bar linkage using bearing kits. I installed these with brand new crossbar linkage cause its the right thing to do from the start. The plastic bushings are garbage but the steel hex bar is a great design as it runs true throughout the rpm range regardless of cold or hot. I can get the down rods at the exact same angle, it really makes a difference as having both banks of cylinders opening 100% simultaneously sets apart a smooth revving engine from a not so smooth one. I also re-drill and tap all the linkage arm/throttle arm set screws to larger 8mm.

If someone can explain how a bell crank linkage with linkage rods at different angles can open the carbs at the same rate im all ears though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
chrisflstf
Samba Member


Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 4093
Location: San Diego
chrisflstf is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Csp linkage rods to short for 2276 Reply with quote

Thats the problem with center pull, if the angles are different, the carbs will never be in sync. Mods to fix it would help, but not look ok. Crossbars have their own issues. They all can be made to work better if not good. Thats the downfall of most dual carb setups. People settle for - it runs good
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Alstrup
Samba Member


Joined: July 12, 2007
Posts: 7852
Location: Videbaek Denmark
Alstrup is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Csp linkage rods to short for 2276 Reply with quote

The bearing upgrade on the regular cross bar systems is a very good investment. Personally I use bronze bushings most of the time which is a cheaper solution. (On the CB linkage) They typically last 18-25000 miles dependant on enviroment. Then yank the bushings out and press new in and youre good for another 20000 miles.
_________________
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=435993
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Ohio Tom
Samba Member


Joined: February 09, 2006
Posts: 1662
Location: Marshallville Ohio
Ohio Tom is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Csp linkage rods to short for 2276 Reply with quote

The error in a bell-crank linkage is no better/worse than a crossbar style.

Manifolds are offset to some degree, thus making the cross bar less than perfect.
Add in the crappy bushings, and mounts and the dumb, long, flexing arm extensions that always bend and they don't win my vote..
How many times has someone floored thier cross bar linkage motor only to have it bend the arms.

The bellcrank is a Pull/Pull style. they naturally stay in-sync with warmups. The heads grow equally, The arms are long and therefore any angles are not great in most installs.

Manifold style and height can play into ANY linkage design/style.

To each his own...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
HotStreetVw
Samba Member


Joined: October 03, 2004
Posts: 871
Location: Wild West
HotStreetVw is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 3:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Csp linkage rods to short for 2276 Reply with quote

I've run the cross bar linkages but they seem excessive, clumsy/ugly. How about a Berg mounted using the wrong fan shroud holes? lol The Berg does look cool though if done right.

My vote goes to the CSP bellcrank. Simple design. I've made several modifications to mine. Carbon rods, cut and turned off the bell crank and made my own to get more travel to support longer arms on the ITBs.
_________________
4inBhore
50 Split - 2724cc NA. Haltech injected
62 Notchback - 2542cc Turbo WIP
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dntchav
Samba Member


Joined: June 11, 2017
Posts: 42
Location: Gardena CA.
dntchav is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Csp linkage rods to short for 2276 Reply with quote

Has anyone tried the new Jaycee bellcrank the rods look twice as thick as the csp plus heim joints and one rod bent to equal out any angles ?

Last edited by dntchav on Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:18 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dntchav
Samba Member


Joined: June 11, 2017
Posts: 42
Location: Gardena CA.
dntchav is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Csp linkage rods to short for 2276 Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Looks like it solves the angle issue but $250-$275 it better
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dntchav
Samba Member


Joined: June 11, 2017
Posts: 42
Location: Gardena CA.
dntchav is offline 

PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Csp linkage rods to short for 2276 Reply with quote

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Looks like it solves the angle issue but $250-$275 it better
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
sled
Samba Member


Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 6254

sled is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: Csp linkage rods to short for 2276 Reply with quote

there is absolutely no way that linkage solves any of the sync issues. having the rods be radically different lengths doesn't help, and putting that dogleg in the rod helps it clear the alternator stand, but it doesn't change the effective angle of the rod when installed.

every linkage style has its shortcomings and its benefits for performance, except the synclink which works 100% correctly.

...its only drawback is its aesthetics, oh and cost for some.
_________________
drive your split.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Instagram Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jpaull
Samba Member


Joined: February 22, 2005
Posts: 3649
Location: Paradise, Ca
jpaull is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: Csp linkage rods to short for 2276 Reply with quote

Ohio Tom wrote:
The error in a bell-crank linkage is no better/worse than a crossbar style.

Manifolds are offset to some degree, thus making the cross bar less than perfect.
Add in the crappy bushings, and mounts and the dumb, long, flexing arm extensions that always bend and they don't win my vote..
How many times has someone floored thier cross bar linkage motor only to have it bend the arms.


It sounds like your referring to round crossbar with the steel linkage arms that can slip on the round bar or stamped steel linkage arms bending. Those also are not aligned well just how you said.

Im referring to the CB Hex bar (Not really the Cross-bar) . The Hex has the cast aluminum linkage arms that dont flex, and the Geometry is 100% True. The base-plates correct the manifold offset, and the hex bar height is adjustable. The base plates also have some adjustment within the mounting holes to get it perfect.

Now I have seen alot of CB linkage kits installed wrong, where the geometry is totally off, but its not the linkages fault, its installer error.

I do have extra care in making mine 100% aligned, both sides have exact same angles and with bearings its always perfect. I also am extremely hard on it as i jam the pedal to the floorboard in every gear when racing without bending anything. I did upgrade to 8mm set screws in the arms.

It did take some "Hot-Rodding", but in the end its able to work without compromises. I hear people say its ugly also, which has some merit out of the box. After lowering the crossbar, shortening the down rods, fully polished base plates and throttle lever, black Hex bar, to me its now a piece of mechanical beauty.
_________________
[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Performance/Engines/Transmissions All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2025, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB
Links to eBay or other vendor sites may be affiliate links where the site receives compensation.