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Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning
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puchfinnland
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:15 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

My A/C is yet to be rebuilt,

I was seriously considering aluminum or Copper for the long runs for and aft, every rubber hose will eventually leak, and is far more expensive then pipe, I know all rubber can not be replaced due to vibration, but this is the diriction i am thinking.
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

No reason you couldn’t. Stray road debris might flatten it though. Rubber is a little more flexible. Mount it in board up against the floor.
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djkeev Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

puchfinnland wrote:
My A/C is yet to be rebuilt,

I was seriously considering aluminum or Copper for the long runs for and aft, every rubber hose will eventually leak, and is far more expensive then pipe, I know all rubber can not be replaced due to vibration, but this is the diriction i am thinking.


Vintage Air sells aluminum pipes with fitting already on them.
A 6’ one is only $21
I imagine that You will still need flexible lines to various components, that will double your fittings cost.

Although with dead accurate bends, you can probably connect directly.

Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

I've got my Vintage Air catalog and my Areoquip EZ clip catalog open, making a list to order tomorrow.

Yes, I'm old, I have printed sales information.

Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

I just ordered a Vintage Air Sanden 709 compressor.

#04709 VUA

This has the side exit ports, it isn't a rear exit like the factory unit put on, but it will fit fine.
I'm not using their proprietary manifold anyway.

I can get a rear exit cover from Coldhose in Florida. About $25........

https://coldhose.com/sanden-compressor-heads.html

I could have purchased a compressor from them and saved a few $$’s but they aren't Sanden, they are "Sanden Style".

I'd rather have the real deal.
But that's an individual choice we each make.

Anyway, I'm going to hold off on my hose and fitting order until I have the compressor in hand.
I want to be absolutely sure of what fittings are used on it.

I also don't see the point of the high pressure port in the D pillar.
Pressure switch in the Pillar? Yes,
Charge port in the Pillar? Not so much.......
honestly it seems like a huge minus having to remove the Pillar cover to check pressures.
EZ Clip has a high pressure in line charge port fitting, but I'm going to put mine by the compressor.

Dave
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weekenderraf
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Is the AC pressure Switch (nr. F129, current track 23-24 in the wiring diagram, part nr: 357959139B??) a real trinary switch with three functions: a low pressure cut on (opens below ca 30psi) switch in series with a high pressure cut off (ca 400 psi) switch both to protect the compressor and a fan switch to energise the radiator fan at 220-250 psi. The low pressure action of the switch is only a 'loss of charge' action.
Or is it only a low pressure (30 psi) cut on switch combined with a "2nd stage" rad fan medium pressure (ca 15 bar) switch without the high pressure cutoff of a real trinary switch, then it is only a combination of the older two switch setup
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 8:41 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Binary or Trinary? It gets a little confusing. The vintage air trinary switch actually only has 2 functions. Low pressure cut and high pressure for a condensor fan.

The vanagon switch as described does 3 functions from memory. Low pressure cut, medium pressure for kicking the radiator fan speed to medium, and a high pressure compressor cut.

On my vintage air, I wired it similar to the factory air except for the high pressure cut. I'm using the vintage air trinary switch screwed into the dryer.

On my 90, I thought about relocating the high pressure port, but in the end, on a camper short of removing the stuff in there, it's pretty easy access and the factory wiring is all terminated there. Not a deal breaker. That said, my wiring etc was still intact.

The hydraulic supply shop cut the barbs off the factory manifold and welded on new barbs for the 134 hose. Those barbs would work with the ez clip system.

Otherwise, no reason not to relocate the fill port and you could install the trinary switch into the drier.

The thing about non stock wiring and I run into this all the time. It's fine for the person that does the wiring, but the next owner if he has a problem with a modified wiring is now paying for someone to figure out the wiring in addition to the problem.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:13 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Yeah, I'll get an inline switch port and keep the wiring as stock.

I'm simply moving the high pressure r134a port to the high pressure exit at the pump.
A pretty visually obvious change.
Possibly easier than stock for future service instead of rooting through the Van looking for the port.

VW's switch has but four wires on it.
I'll need to look at the wiring diagram which is in the thread back a few pages.

Dave
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weekenderraf
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

4 wires are sufficient: 2 wires for the fan switch (current track 22-23) and two wires for the two in series connected pressure switches (Low and Hi) current track 24-26. In normal operation both the pressure switches are closed and the current can 'flow' to the AC clutch relay J44
Current track numbers are those of the wiring diagram 97.144 (Water cooled-Digifant 1989)
Raf
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

The wiring diagram on page 2 shows two wires for low pressure, they turn off the A/C clutch and two wires for High Pressure that turns on/up? The condenser cooling fan.

Edit, maybe the pressure switch also shuts off the compressor in a high pressure situation?
A three position switch, Off/On/Off ....... pressure operated?

Dave
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Last edited by djkeev on Thu Jan 21, 2021 6:04 am; edited 2 times in total
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weekenderraf
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

This website shows a trinary pressure switch (last picture) with OEM number vw 357959139B, according to the specifications it switches to three different pressure values: Low pressure open (<) 1.20 bar, fan close 16.0 bar and high pressure open 32.0 bar

Raf
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:44 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

I forgot the name of the website: [url]vwsyncro.eu/p/climatronic-repair.html[/url]
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 5:34 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Here is the wiring diagram of the 1989 A/C Pressure Switch.

It appears to be a trinary switch.

The left side turns on the Radiator cooling fan,
The right side appears to have a left/center/right contact... low disconnect, normal pressure, high pressure disconnect.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Dave
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2021 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Check the wiring for the vintage air trinary switch. I remember it has 3 wires, but only 2 functions. The factory switch has 4 wires and is a true trinary switch.

The factory air cuts the compressor when the rad fan is on high. I didn’t worry about adding that feature. Those situations are rare and I can certainly remember to shut off the AC.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 23, 2021 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Well, look what some nice person left on my front porch!
It showed up while I was at BusDepot picking up some parts.

A Sanden 709 A/C Compressor!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I got it from VintageAir but it was cheaper buying it from one of their distributors because of a free freight offer!
Go Figure.........

Anyway, obviously the rear ports are different.
This is of little concern because I am installing all new hoses.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I will need to mount the compressor at a 90° rotation counter clockwise to allow the ports to clear the engine cover. (As viewed from the rear of the Van looking forward)

The Big size 10 Suction port will be highest up and will need to make a fast 90° turn. The #10 hose comes down the D pillar from the Evaporator.

The #8 pressure port will also get a 90° but head immediately up front to the Condenser.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I'm making a hose and fitting shopping list right now.

I've read that, with a few minor mods, these old Sanden compressors make amazing compressed air pumps!

Dave
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2021 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

🎼 Making a list, Checking it Twice..... 🎼
Making a list of needed hoses and fittings. I will be Using the EZ Clip fittings and hose system.

I already have quite a bit of what I need from doing other jobs.

This will be a relatively small order ......

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Dave
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

I picked up the miscellaneous hardware and fasteners to hang the new A/C hose today.

I ordered the EZ Clip fittings and hose from hosewarehouse this afternoon.

I have some of what I need but in a few days I should have everything.

I'll post an exact parts list and hose length information as I progress.

Dave
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:00 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Well....... it's not too bad outside today, mid 20’s but no wind.

I figured I should get the A/C Condenser mounted. I'll need to put the radiator back in to get the new stainless steel cooling pipes properly situated so I can put the engine back in.

So, todays task? Condenser!

First I held up the condenser with ZIP ties and installed the radiator.

Why install the radiator?
I wanted to make sure the new Condenser and the radiator don't try to occupy the same physical space.
I also wanted to make sure I don't block access to the thermo switch for the cooling fan.

After holding things in position, I marked the Condenser mounting flange where it needs to be cut away for the thermo switch.

Here the condenser is on the bench to cut out the flange, the tape measure is showing you where to cut your flange before installing it in your Van.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


It is aluminum, it cuts easily, just cut the flange..... don't damage the condenser.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 10, 2021 11:14 am    Post subject: Re: Rebuild...... 1990 Air Conditioning Reply with quote

Found this picture in my syncro folder. Rather than attach the condenser to the radiator, I mounted it to the front of the van with some simple aluminum brackets using existing holes in the nose and adel clamps for the bottom. I used weather strip foam insulation from HD to fill the gap between the two. I also covered the condenser with cardboard during mockup to keep from bending the fins. No problem clearing the rad fan switch.

The clearance problem I did run into was having enough room for the 90 degree hose fittings to clear the chassis and the hoses run out the bottom to the frame rail.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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