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Too Much Oil Pressure!!
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djkeev Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:22 pm    Post subject: Too Much Oil Pressure!! Reply with quote

My "refreshed" 2.1 has run well.

I installed an oil pressure gauge from the get go.
I started with a Dino 10/40 oil as a break in oil.

Oil pressures have been good..... very good actually.
12 psi or so at a hot idle and a little more than +10 lbs per 1000 rpm.

The gauge is a cheap SunPro that I had for some reason. Brand new but nothing of quality.
It is also a 100 psi scale and when you're reading down in the 10-20 range it was a guessing game half the time.

I ordered a JEGS digital unit. Nice gauge, it fits snuggly in my Brickwerks gauge pod too. (My VDO in the 86 was a sloppy fit)

I installed the JEGS gauge the other day but used the Sunpro sender and the pressures were right there where the SunPro pressures were.

I was happy.

Today I changed the engine oil and filter.
It is approaching 1000 miles and time to drop the Dino oil, past time actually.

I used the Typical Mann oil filter but with Summer coming I put in Shell Rotella 15/40.

While I was under there I pulled the SunPro sender to install the JEGS sender.
The sender is mounted in the GlowShift adapter plate.
As I disconnected the sender wire from the SunPro sender the electrical connection literally fell apart! Bits of plastic fell out and a small carriage bolt.

I screwed in the JEGS unit and ran a ground wire for this sending unit has a dedicated ground rather than just relying on the threads making ground.

I started it up,
Cold oil pressure 66 psi, not unusual.
Took off and after a few miles the pressures were still high. Upper 50s low 60s at cruising speeds ...... 2000-3000 rpm.

I went for quite a ride and at a hot idle .... 28 psi
37/38 psi at 2000 rpm
49/50 psi at 3000 rpm
Mid 50s at 4000 rpm.

So........
either my pressure sender is crap, reading high
Or
My oil pressure with the 15/40 is sky high!

Most people would love to complain about high oil pressure!
It worries me. Is it really getting lubricated?
I have a jug of 10/40 on hand. I may drain the 15/40 into a clean container and pour in the 10/40, see what happens.

Sadly my mechanical gauge is in Pennsylvania. The ideal test is to screw it in and see what it says.

So....... I plan a drive to Pennsylvania Sunday.
What harm (if any) will the unusually high oil pressure (if it is really high and not a false reading) do to the engine?

I'm thinking none for these pressures are seen while running normally but at much lower rpms.

Dave
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:28 pm    Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! Reply with quote

No harm. Maybe higher oil temps and pressure would drop. The relief valve will bleed off excess pressure. My AC is too cold. Wink
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:

What harm (if any) will the unusually high oil pressure (if it is really high and not a false reading) do to the engine?


my only experience is with losing a couple of oil pumps on the inline motors. youll know its too high when all of the oil comes out of the engine at the filter seal in about half a second. Very Happy
(relief valve stuck closed)

otherwise i think youre in good shape.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! Reply with quote

i run 15-40 Rotella T4 and my pressure is a tad higher <nyah, nyah> at speed but slightly lower at idle (around 20). what's your oil temp?

i also run an oil cooler which accounts for the higher at speed OP. you're totally fine, stop bragging <grin>.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2021 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! Reply with quote

Comforting...... thanks.

While I'm in Pa. I'll grab my mechanical gauge.

With the GlowShift plate I have several blocked ports for senders. I'll connect it and compare oil pressures with the JEGS unit.

I have no idea about oil temperature. I guess I can always run another wire to the GlowShift plate!
I actually have my ATF temperature gauge which isn't hooked up yet. I bet that sender will send engine oil temperature!

I should get another sender and run them both to a switch, I can then use one gauge and toggle back and forth between engine and transmission temps.

I like that idea!

EDIT: I just put a temp sender in my cart.
Now to find a nice looking single pole double throw switch
A rotary switch, it could do five senders and share one gauge ...... has a vintage look...... 40mm dia knob .......

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


https://www.amazon.com/Electronics-Salon-1PCS-Rota...AndDetails


Dave
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! Reply with quote

This morning I changed my oil before leaving for Pennsylvania.

I drained the 15/40 into a clean container and saved it.

I replaced it with Shell Rotella 10/40.

The oil pressure really didn't change much at all.

I am still idling hot at 26/27 psi.

It seems like every rpm oil pressure point is about 10 psi higher than it should be.

I grabbed my mechanical gauge but the engine is HOT right now.
I'll hook it up once it cools off and do some pressure comparisons.

Dave
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! Reply with quote

So...all these high readings are on the JEGS digital gauge...???

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! Reply with quote

For years with a factory new engine I ran 10w30 in the winter and 30wt during the summer. Never put a gauge on it though, but the oil light worked at expected. I later moved to running a 5w40 "diesel" oil, but over the last year many of these oils have dropped their rating for use with a gasoline engine.


Today on an engine with tight bearings I would be likely be running a synthetic 5w30 year around.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! Reply with quote

Find and use some Rotella 0w40, that should shave about 2 to 5 psi hot oil pressure
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! Reply with quote

I don't yet know why the pressure reads high.

Maybe the SunPro read low?

When I used the SunPro sender on the JEGS digital gauge, the digital gauge read Low?

The JEGS sender is reading high?

The JEGS sender and gauge are reading spot on?

I won't have an answer until I connect my mechanical gauge along with the JEGS and compare them. The GlowShift plate allows me to do this easily.


I do KNOW that 10w or 15w made little difference in the oil pressure.

I've changed the oil so much already, I just may pick up a jug of 0w and see how it reads.

Dave
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: TOO MUCH OIL PRESSURE!! Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:

I do KNOW that 10w or 15w made little difference in the oil pressure.

I've changed the oil so much already, I just may pick up a jug of 0w and see how it reads.

Dave


Lowering the first number will lower the cold oil pressure and lowering the second number will lower the hot oil pressure, though there is some grey area here.

As far as the effect up running too high an oil pressure, when the oil is going back to the pan through the relief valve the flow of oil to the bearings is reduced as is the cooling effect of the higher oil volume flowing through the bearings and being splashed around the crankcase.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: Too Much Oil Pressure!! Reply with quote

Went fir another ride, the pressures are still high, really no difference between the 19w and 15w oils.

Looking at oil weight vs temperature charts, at my mean temperatures in the 40s and 50s there really shouldn't be a difference.

The lower numbers really come into play when it gets COLD outside!

In theory, (as I understand it) any multi weight should have the same viscosity at a given temperature above their low range.
Be it 0w, 5w, 10w or 15w ..... at 50 they should all be the same viscosity.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Too Much Oil Pressure!! Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:
Went fir another ride, the pressures are still high, really no difference between the 19w and 15w oils.

Looking at oil weight vs temperature charts, at my mean temperatures in the 40s and 50s there really shouldn't be a difference.

The lower numbers really come into play when it gets COLD outside!

In theory, (as I understand it) any multi weight should have the same viscosity at a given temperature above their low range.
Be it 0w, 5w, 10w or 15w ..... at 50 they should all be the same viscosity.

Dave


The low numbers followed by the "W" are the cold cranking and cold pumping specificataions of the oil, for a 0W oil they are in the -40C range IIRC. They are not the same as rating a straight weight oil at 40C or 100C.

Your internal temps on a hot engine aren't even close to 50C or to 50F for that matter and thus the 0w, 5w, 10w or 15w have little to no bearing on your hot oil pressure, as I said above it is the second number that affects hot oil pressure. VW specs an oil pressure of 29 psi at 80C and 2000 rpm so should it would be less at 90 or 100C and the same rpm.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Too Much Oil Pressure!! Reply with quote

Honestly, those lower numbers are for cold start protection, or running in extreme cold which most of us will never see.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Too Much Oil Pressure!! Reply with quote

It was a BEAUTIFUL day in the neighborhood!

I crawled under and pulled a plug on my GlowShift plate and screwed in my mechanical gauge.

Now I have a third set of numbers!

At idle the JEGS gauge is reading about 12psi higher than my mechanical gauge.
At higher RPM's, about 3,000 the JEGS gauge difference is much small, 6-7 psi higher than the mechanical gauge.

None the less, I have adequate oil pressure even if I subtract 15 off of every number!

But, is the mechanical gauge correct!?
Who knows...... three gauges, three different numbers all of which say I have good oil pressure.
A little knowledge is a dangerous thing!

I'll be contacting JEGS and see what they have to say.

When I removed the mechanical gauge I screwed a temperature sender into the outlet.
I'll be able to see what my oil temperatures are.

Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Too Much Oil Pressure!! Reply with quote

nothing worse than 3 variate data points. bottom line is your OP is fine and now you just need to watch trends.

of course, i'll be cruising around with my accurate vintage VDO sender and matched gauge, both made in Germany, while you don't know which end is up. <evil grin>
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Too Much Oil Pressure!! Reply with quote

Ive had good service from Autometer gauges in my race car. The actual value is not so important. Its repeatability and the ability to show a sudden loss of pressure.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Too Much Oil Pressure!! Reply with quote

MarkWard wrote:
Ive had good service from Autometer gauges in my race car. The actual value is not so important. Its repeatability and the ability to show a sudden loss of pressure.



Agree!

It is nice to know that I have acceptable hot idle oil pressure as a base line. All three gauges verified this.

I also get the approx. 10psi bump per 1,000 rpm with all the gauges. (Actually it is more than 10 psi)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:19 am    Post subject: Re: Too Much Oil Pressure!! Reply with quote

It just occurred to me that the SunPro sender was a single wire unit grounding through the 1/8 NPT thread into the GlowShift adapter pate.
I had used teflon tape, a No No on one wire electrical senders.

The JEGS is a two terminal sender and I ran a wire to ground, plus no teflon tape.

I wonder if the SunPro sender was giving false readings without having a good ground?
The JEGS gauge read the sane as the SunPro did at first when I was using the SunPro sender.
The readings only became high after I installed the JEGS two wire sender.

For a test I'm going to wire the SunPro gauge to the JEGS sender. Just curious about the non mechanical senders.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 14, 2021 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: Too Much Oil Pressure!! Reply with quote

djkeev wrote:

I wonder if the SunPro sender was giving false readings without having a good ground?

For a test I'm going to wire the SunPro gauge to the JEGS sender. Just curious about the non mechanical senders.


yeah was just going to comment that you might want to ensure that all the gauges are powered off the same source - or at least getting roughly similar input voltage stuff at the dash can be pretty variable unless youve confirmed theyre close - and grounded properly, including the senders.

is the sender range the same on the sunpro?
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