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Gas prices where you are
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

harrymarlin wrote:
KTPhil wrote:
Pruneman99 wrote:
I think the pipeline shutdown just hit CA prices.. $4.60 a gallon at the corner station Shocked


Yeah, sure, an east coat pipeline causes higher prices in CA? Bull$hit.
If anything, the pipeline causes a glut at the source, and suppy=ly/demand should mean lower west coast prices. Just an excuse to gouge.


I think he's saying that the pipeline shutdown just caused the East coast to start to see prices like you guys normally see in CA.


Seems to me he was implying that the pipeline shutdown directly impacted fuel prices in CA. He is probably right. Speculators sitting at computers typing numbers, wearing suits, with clean fingernails and no callouses on their hands, will cause prices to fluctuate based on fear of shortages, even of no shortages exist. We will all see a jump, for no real good reason at all.

On another note, local stations are up to $3.03-ish. Well on the way to $3.50 by July 4th. Happy Independence day!
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Fish
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

If a hurricane shuts down a refinery in Texas, the price will increase in California. It has been that way for years.
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

Fish wrote:
If a hurricane shuts down a refinery in Texas, the price will increase in California. It has been that way for years.


Yep. Because commodities.
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Pruneman99
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
harrymarlin wrote:
KTPhil wrote:
Pruneman99 wrote:
I think the pipeline shutdown just hit CA prices.. $4.60 a gallon at the corner station Shocked


Yeah, sure, an east coat pipeline causes higher prices in CA? Bull$hit.
If anything, the pipeline causes a glut at the source, and suppy=ly/demand should mean lower west coast prices. Just an excuse to gouge.


I think he's saying that the pipeline shutdown just caused the East coast to start to see prices like you guys normally see in CA.


Seems to me he was implying that the pipeline shutdown directly impacted fuel prices in CA. He is probably right. Speculators sitting at computers typing numbers, wearing suits, with clean fingernails and no callouses on their hands, will cause prices to fluctuate based on fear of shortages, even of no shortages exist. We will all see a jump, for no real good reason at all.

On another note, local stations are up to $3.03-ish. Well on the way to $3.50 by July 4th. Happy Independence day!


Yes, exactly. Even though CA is not serviced by that pipeline, it effects the demand on the commodity. Even on the other side of the country. Increased demand do to fear, speculators, wall street, gas companies, and local stations all react to the changes of the commodity system wide. Rational thought isn't something humans do well as a group.

Hopefully this is just a blip, and the prices will not be driven higher by prolonged demand.

Now, I'm going to go sit in my walk-in closet surrounded by my 1,698 rolls of toilet paper and relax.
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Timewizardbutterfingerkri
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

Sometimes im paying about 4$ per gallon.
Southern california Azusa area
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Abscate Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 4:01 am    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

I cruised upstate NY and saw $2.90 for 87, and $3.25 for 93

Little change since pre-hack

NPR reports impact in NE has been minimal as we have alternate supply strategies , its in the SE the impact has been felt

DONT GO TOPPING OFF YOUR CAR!

That causes the problem!
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EVfun
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 5:05 am    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
A hybrid or EV will do about 2x better than the average car as it is designed for efficiency , with attendant drawbacks to that design.

The electricity for an EV comes from a power plant which is 40% fuel efficient ( oil) , 60% ( cycle gas) , or too cheap to meter ( nuclear) 😎

Source to miles driven would be the best way to look at it but some of the bits of information seem hard to find. I don't think the EV is 2x as efficient as the gas car, but it is an improvement and will tend to get cleaner over time as the power grid gets cleaner and more efficient. To try and get comparable numbers I decided to go with Btu and look back to the source as best I could quickly.

For the EV I could not find an average watt hours per mile, but many of them seem to land around 300 watt hours per mile. There are 3412 Btu in one kWh. That puts the vehicle consumption at 1023.6 Btu per mile. According to the government the energy consumed to generate electricity is 36.47 quadrillion Btu and the net electricity available is 14.36. That is an efficiency of only 39.37%. So the net source to road is 2600 Btu per mile.

Going back to the previous link, the government shows the recent passenger car average fuel economy is 37.6 mpg. Modern gasoline with 10% ethanol has 120,286 Btu per gallon. That put the gas car at 3199 Btu per mile. This number doesn't include the source losses, so it is comparable to the 1024 above. I found getting the losses from well to gas tank more difficult. According to a government source refineries run at about 88% efficiency (surprises me considering they basically boil the crude oil and fractionally distill it.) What I could not quickly find was the energy cost to pump and move the oil and gasoline from well to the gas station. It travels by some combination of pipeline, tanker, rail car, and tractor trailer rig and all those reduce the source to wheel efficiency. Using just the 88% figure I get a net of 3635 Btu per mile. Is transportation losses another 10%?

This all is somewhat beside my particular case. I drive about 5000 miles a year. I can do that in a Bug getting 26 mpg and paying Washington's 49.4 cent gas tax for an annual fuel tax of $95. I could choose to buy a used Leaf and pay an annual Washington fuel tax of $225. Washington provides an incentive for me to keep driving my old VWs. Smile

If your carbon footprint is your thing the EV looks a lot better in western WA. I glanced at my local utility power mix, easily found on their web site, and see that my electricity is 76% hydro, 10% nuclear, and 8% wind. So not only is the EV somewhat more efficient source to wheels, here 94% of the carbon footprint of the energy used is eliminated. Shocked
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Manfred58sc
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 7:55 am    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

^^^^^^ It hurts to read all that math.

$3.09 at the pump next to the house.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 8:23 am    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

$2.90 for regular. My gas is still hot from the Linden Refinery cracking tower when I pump it. No shortages here.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 9:16 am    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

Ive been contemplating my next car - the pros and cons of gas vs hybrid vs electric. While cost of fuel is one thing, depending on getting gas at a gas station is another. Every station around here is out. While this is a temporary situation this scenario is certain to happen again. And who knows how long it will last next time.Im thinking more and more towards electric because not being able to go at all because of no gas is for the birds. I know theres drawbacks to electric
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 9:52 am    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

Not sure where I first found this, it may have been in this thread already, but it is definitely worth a watch. I had to watch a few parts over a couple times to get things to sink into my stupid head, but it really is a novel idea.


Link

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PuddleRainbow
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 10:00 am    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

Quote:
Every station around here is out. While this is a temporary situation this scenario is certain to happen again.


Plug-in hybrid would be the perfect hedge? Texas had no electricity a just a couple months ago.
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 10:19 am    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

PuddleRainbow wrote:
Quote:
Every station around here is out. While this is a temporary situation this scenario is certain to happen again.


Plug-in hybrid would be the perfect hedge? Texas had no electricity a just a couple months ago.


I thought the same thing. I feel the perfect hedge is to set up your life in such a way that you don't need a car if the spit hits the spam. Your shoes and your bike will need new rubber eventually, but they can get you a long way without gasoline or electricity.
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 11:12 am    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

$2.87 87 Octane locally to me throughout central Arkansas.

As far as the hybrid talk goes, I'm a fan of my Ford Powerboost. No plug in, regenerative breaking, drives more than half in town strictly electric, and gives power when I'm trailering buses, just as I did this morning. I've had 8-12 mile trips around town that average 38mpg using almost all electric motor.

Averaging 21.4mpg first 1k miles. 710 miles was a roadtrip to OKC from Little Rock two weekends ago. Cruise set, A/C on going 80mph.


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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2021 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

Southern California, Costco, Premium, $4.09 per gallon.
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Zundfolge1432 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
PuddleRainbow wrote:
Quote:
Every station around here is out. While this is a temporary situation this scenario is certain to happen again.


Plug-in hybrid would be the perfect hedge? Texas had no electricity a just a couple months ago.


I thought the same thing. I feel the perfect hedge is to set up your life in such a way that you don't need a car if the spit hits the spam. Your shoes and your bike will need new rubber eventually, but they can get you a long way without gasoline or electricity.


I guess that depends on where you live. Many places have zero mass transit options. Some live in semi rural areas miles from the nearest stores. On top of that there are no sidewalks or bike lanes to use. Its a choice we made, a trade off but bicycles wont work here. Not practical for anything other than recreational use.

Finally the attitude, people here are hostile and aggressive towards bikes, its sad. Meanwhile weve been using hybrids for years. Gas prices are still reasonable @ 2.55 per gallon at Costco but I did see 3.17 gallon in Illinois. Speaking of hostile the samba has been nothing but hostile towards hybrid technology and anything that suggests forward thinking concerning electric vehicles. Everyone has their axe to grind and many here against anything outside their comfort zone, its ok and rather quaint I think😀
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 10:55 am    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

Zundfolge1432 wrote:
cdennisg wrote:
PuddleRainbow wrote:
Quote:
Every station around here is out. While this is a temporary situation this scenario is certain to happen again.


Plug-in hybrid would be the perfect hedge? Texas had no electricity a just a couple months ago.


I thought the same thing. I feel the perfect hedge is to set up your life in such a way that you don't need a car if the spit hits the spam. Your shoes and your bike will need new rubber eventually, but they can get you a long way without gasoline or electricity.


I guess that depends on where you live. Many places have zero mass transit options. Some live in semi rural areas miles from the nearest stores. On top of that there are no sidewalks or bike lanes to use. Its a choice we made, a trade off but bicycles wont work here. Not practical for anything other than recreational use.

Finally the attitude, people here are hostile and aggressive towards bikes, its sad. Meanwhile weve been using hybrids for years. Gas prices are still reasonable @ 2.55 per gallon at Costco but I did see 3.17 gallon in Illinois. Speaking of hostile the samba has been nothing but hostile towards hybrid technology and anything that suggests forward thinking concerning electric vehicles. Everyone has their axe to grind and many here against anything outside their comfort zone, its ok and rather quaint I think😀


When I mentioned setting up your life such that you don't need a car, that includes living in a place where you can get what you need, and where you need to be, without a car. Not ideal, but if there is no gas, or even electricity available, how else will you get things done? There will be no mass transit, and your gas/hybrid/electric/diesel vehicle will be worthless.

Also, bike lanes aren't needed if the highways have no cars. Auto driver's hostility towards bikes and pedestrians will disappear real quick. And we all might lose some weight, too. Wink

I realize that is dystopian, but these are the things to think about when looking at massive shortages of goods and services. It is at least in part the reason many people are moving to this area, and in turn increasing traffic and demand for goods and services. Which is a major problematic issue in areas from whence they come.

I think hybrid cars are the future, with full electric not far behind. But it will take more than mandating companies to build them to make it happen. Our current infrastructure cannot support the proposed increase in electric usage, and the investment required to get there is a very difficult pill to swallow.
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

PuddleRainbow wrote:
Quote:
Every station around here is out. While this is a temporary situation this scenario is certain to happen again.


Plug-in hybrid would be the perfect hedge? Texas had no electricity a just a couple months ago.


Wood gasification:
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Laughing

Paid $4.299/gallon for 91 octane last two fill-ups in Pasadena, California.
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60vwnewengland
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

No ones laughing at us dieselgate owners now. I almost want to get a for sale sign and write aint no lines for diesel and charge double the trade in value to see if some bozo gasaholic in the Costco parking lot will buy it.

Diesel is $3.09 in DC
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1LoWezl
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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Gas prices where you are Reply with quote

NorCal right next to the refinery: 4.53 and diesel is finally less!!4.29 hahahahah
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