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1958 Outlaw Beetle Build
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PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Big_E_Deluxe wrote:
Cool Update:

Honored to have Max featured in the latest July issue of HotVW's! Vintage Special with some really nice cars, check it out.

Honestly never thought this would happen. Max is not a trailer queen or a show car, he's a driver. I just wanted to build something fun to drive, so it's cool to see that the guys at HotVW's appreciated it enough to share in print. Thanks Shin!

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I'm telling you ..your one lucky guy beautiful car ...100% my style I've hate to admit it im jealous 😔 ..I can stare at your car all day ...
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SteveW
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 02, 2021 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

I can’t wait to read your feature Erik Very Happy Congrats!
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Just finished reading the article Eric. Great write up! Car looks awesome. Congrats... well deserved for a nice build.
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bandi
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 27, 2021 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Congrats on the feature. I love your car, it's been my desktop background for ages now!
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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 12:45 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Thanks for the kind words! Great issue to be in with some really cool old speed beetles!

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Max update:

Engine is out... It's fine, I'm just getting a head start on a new upgrade in August. I'm changing out Max's split case trans for a newly rebuilt '67 spec tunnel trans. 1st gear syncro and slightly different gearing will improve the driving experience. Will probably be a little quieter as well. The split case trans was one of the only things on Max that we didn't open up during the build. It only had an exterior refresh. This trans has been reliable, but I'm not sure of it's history or maintenance. I'm really looking forward to what the new trans has to offer.

With engine out, I was able to give it a really good visual check, and all looks good. No new or old leaks. While it's out of Max for a couple months, I'm hoping to get it on a dyno. The goal is to get it tuned up well, especially the carbs. Although they run great, I always wonder if there is a little more hp to be had.

If it happens, I will make sure to share, along with trans install.

E
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1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927


Last edited by Big_E_Deluxe on Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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Erik G
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 28, 2021 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

dang, I don't buy magazines much anymore, Gotta go find that one. Still on shelves?

hopefully it will get more people building vintage speed. Is Shin's car in it? Please Pray
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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:31 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Erik G wrote:
dang, I don't buy magazines much anymore, Gotta go find that one. Still on shelves?

hopefully it will get more people building vintage speed. Is Shin's car in it? Please Pray


Erik, you probably have another week or so before this issue is no longer on the shelf. Easy to order directly from HotVW’s.

Unfortunately Shin’s beetle is not in this issue. Fun fact: our '58 beetles have very close vin#’s. They may have been at the factory at the same time. Pretty cool.
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1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 12:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Congratulations! Glad to see your car getting some well deserved attention.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:17 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

"I'm hoping to get it on a dyno"

It will be interesting how much HP you can squeeze out during the dyno tuning process.

Cheers,

Paul
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2021 10:44 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Big_E_Deluxe wrote:
Erik G wrote:
dang, I don't buy magazines much anymore, Gotta go find that one. Still on shelves?

hopefully it will get more people building vintage speed. Is Shin's car in it? Please Pray


Erik, you probably have another week or so before this issue is no longer on the shelf. Easy to order directly from HotVW’s.

Unfortunately Shin’s beetle is not in this issue. Fun fact: our '58 beetles have very close vin#’s. They may have been at the factory at the same time. Pretty cool.


found it yesterday locally. love it. details on the tach? it looks great ( I mean the whole thing does...)
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Big_E_Deluxe
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 6:40 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Erik G wrote:
Big_E_Deluxe wrote:
Erik G wrote:
dang, I don't buy magazines much anymore, Gotta go find that one. Still on shelves?

hopefully it will get more people building vintage speed. Is Shin's car in it? Please Pray


Erik, you probably have another week or so before this issue is no longer on the shelf. Easy to order directly from HotVW’s.

Unfortunately Shin’s beetle is not in this issue. Fun fact: our '58 beetles have very close vin#’s. They may have been at the factory at the same time. Pretty cool.


found it yesterday locally. love it. details on the tach? it looks great ( I mean the whole thing does...)


Thank you! 6 volt Tach came for Samba seller, Tim: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2005599

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1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 7:39 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

I saw your car in last months hot vdubs issue. Hands down one of the best cars ive seen in the mag in a while!
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 2:54 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Big_E_Deluxe wrote:
Erik G wrote:
Big_E_Deluxe wrote:
Erik G wrote:
dang, I don't buy magazines much anymore, Gotta go find that one. Still on shelves?

hopefully it will get more people building vintage speed. Is Shin's car in it? Please Pray


Erik, you probably have another week or so before this issue is no longer on the shelf. Easy to order directly from HotVW’s.

Unfortunately Shin’s beetle is not in this issue. Fun fact: our '58 beetles have very close vin#’s. They may have been at the factory at the same time. Pretty cool.


found it yesterday locally. love it. details on the tach? it looks great ( I mean the whole thing does...)


Thank you! 6 volt Tach came for Samba seller, Tim: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2005599

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Highly recommend Tim. Top bloke, good to support a samba seller
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 10:20 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Dyno Update: (I'm not an engine expert, so I'll do my best to pass on the information we discovered during the dyno.)

A couple of days ago, I was fortunate to spend the day at Whitey Worsham’s private shop. Whitey has been around VW's a long time, as a hobbyist and VW business owner. He's been featured in HotVW's for car builds and for recently a 1700cc (36hp case) monster that rev's over 7k rpms! Built for 36hp land speed challenge, checkout the build thread here: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=

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He has an extensive engine building shop in his private garage, used now for his personal projects. He knows his stuff! I was thrilled and fortunate to have someone locally that has a VW engine dyno and also knows performance 36hp engines.

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The goal was to put Max’s 1397cc (69.5x80) engine on his dyno and get it dialed in. Engine was mounted up on his engine dyno (that he assembled and customized for VW use) and he checked cylinder temp, oil temp, oil pressure and compression. Engine currently has approximately 7k miles and all vitals checked out great.

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The meat & potatoes: The Zenith NDIX carbs for the most part were good (using 356 Normal jets), only a slightly larger custom main jet was recommended. The current 115 jet was enlarged to 120. After that, ignition timing took up most of the dyno time. The Bosch 010 performed well and liked a lot of advance. Still seemed “sluggish” to Whitey, with peak torque coming on late and not lasting long at all. He suggested a 009. Not something I had thought about, but was open to the idea. This change made a big difference in torque. Torque came on much sooner and lasted much longer, all the way up to 4500 rpm. Much better than the 010. Engine also liked a lot of ignition advance. Best run results: 78.2 ft lbs torque @ 3300 rpm and 57 hp @ 4300 rpm with 38 degree advance. Overall we made a 10% increase in torque with these changes, not bad (but more importantly starting sooner and lasting longer). The lower elevation in Charlotte vs. high country should give us slightly higher numbers as well. This was considered during the dyno and all numbers should be in a good range for long engine life.

Compared to Stock 36hp (1192cc), this build has approximately 43% more HP and 22% more Torque

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I plan to stick with the 009. I actually have a rebuilt German 009 on hand so I'm good to go. I added a black Bosch cap (Whitey had one) to keep the engine looking consistent. 12v coil in pictures will be redone in early Bosch blue with correct decals. New '67 tunnel trans is just about done and will get installed soon. Max is also getting a complete 12v conversion as well.

Thanks to Jake at MonkeyNut VW for setting up this time with Whitey and helping!!! And introducing me to Waffle House, never been before, lol. Whitey had some great stories and was beyond patient. Answered all my stupid questions along the way too. A true gentleman!

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Engine is home and waiting to go in. I think along with the new transmission, the effort will be well worth it. A noticeable power increase, that unless you put on a dyno, you would have never known was there.

(Disclaimer: your results may very, consult with a professional. Apply at your own risk.)

More updates to come......
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1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927


Last edited by Big_E_Deluxe on Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:50 am; edited 4 times in total
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5500
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 23, 2021 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Thanks for the update Eric! Would not have guessed the 1397 would need bigger mains than a 1600! Also interesting about the 009. Where are you setting it for static timing? Think I'll start looking around for one. What gearing will you be using in your new transaxle? I have a rebuilt 64 with a 4.37 R&P ready to go in. Wondering if I should have the 4.37 swapped out for a 4.12...
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 7:57 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

If you want to keep the vintage speed look for the distributor I believe the Bosch 019 is a cast iron which has a curve either the same or very similar to the 009. Just a thought.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Yeah. I never understood the hype of the 010. But it is period correct of course.
Now, the elevated timing is a combination of the relatively weak ignition on these old birds. An upgrade to a more powerfull ignition can typically reduce peak timing with about 2 degrees. The rest is due to the plug location and chamber shape.
As for usable torque. While that Mosquito muffler is also looking period correct it does NOT do anything good for such an engine below 3000-3300 rpm. You could most likely have pulled the same hp and some 5-10% more torque below 3000 rpm with a shorty header. But, I know, they don´t look racey and they don´t make the crowd go "woow"

That said 57 hp with a basicly out of the box type of Okrasa engine is not bad.

As for the carbs needing largewr mains. It is quite natural. A 1400 cc engine pulls less vacum than a 1600 engine does, so you need more jet area to supply the fuel needed.

And the tour on the engine dyno was great wasnt it. suddenly you can see where when and what is happening. It is a great tool.
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2021 4:24 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Thanks for the continued updates; it is really good to hear what you are learning about your engine.

I thought I'd read before to not have maximum advance more than around 32 degrees. My dual carb single port 36hp seems to also like more advance (with 010) but I have always stayed below 32degrees max. Have you found the engine running hotter or any other issues with the increased advance?

Many thanks.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:48 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

5500 wrote:
What gearing will you be using in your new transaxle? I have a rebuilt 64 with a 4.37 R&P ready to go in. Wondering if I should have the 4.37 swapped out for a 4.12...


New trans will be 4.12
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1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
1959 VW Bus - "Hans" - Double Door Panel: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746927
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: 1958 Outlaw Beetle Build Reply with quote

Alstrup wrote:

And the tour on the engine dyno was great wasnt it. suddenly you can see where when and what is happening. It is a great tool.


Yes! Can't image tuning an engine like this without it. So much information to be had.
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1958 VW Beetle - "Max": https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=...highlight=
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