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KTPhil 
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006
Posts: 36287
Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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 Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 10:53 am Post subject: Re: Electronic Points Conversion |
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| Maybe this is off-topic, but I remember reading that to install some pointless systems, some "file to fit" and "goops and glues" steps were needed. Play or interference fits, rotor alignment, and maybe other issues meant it's a one-way-street to convert to pointless. Changing back to points on the road may be impossible, hence the advice to have a complete distributor (ideally with clamp, already timed) is a good backup on long trips. |
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mukluk
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2012
Posts: 7452
Location: Clyde, TX
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| Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 1:06 pm Post subject: Re: Electronic Points Conversion |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| Maybe this is off-topic, but I remember reading that to install some pointless systems, some "file to fit" and "goops and glues" steps were needed. Play or interference fits, rotor alignment, and maybe other issues meant it's a one-way-street to convert to pointless. Changing back to points on the road may be impossible, hence the advice to have a complete distributor (ideally with clamp, already timed) is a good backup on long trips. |
I don't know if it's the same for other modules, but the Pertronix I had in my '68 over two decades ago didn't require any alterations to the distributor, you just removed the points & condenser then installed the module and reluctor. Swapping back took less than ten minutes... after I walked a mile home and came back with my old points and condenser.
| Xevin wrote: |
I thought I read the answer to the original question in one of these post  |
You did, but where's the fun in folks answering a poster's question when there's a chance to reanimate a dead horse then beat it to death again? 
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1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga" |
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modok
Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009
Posts: 27750
Location: Colorado Springs
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 2:39 am Post subject: Re: Electronic Points Conversion |
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| Cusser wrote: |
| Jimbug57 wrote: |
| I've always been curious about electronic ignition in my bug. Now I'll be able to try for myself. |
Call me when you've been driving a VW for 49 years like I have.....
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HA! the Classics are always in style
I just got this big smart phone and so far it's just a hindrance.
too fragile to carry with me while working so I just set it next to the computer...but it's like, so what's the point then. no point.
I drive a 1960 with points AND electronic ignition 
maybe I should get a pager. do they still make pagers? |
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ashman40
Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16749
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:19 am Post subject: Re: Electronic Points Conversion |
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| KTPhil wrote: |
| … I remember reading that to install some pointless systems, some "file to fit" and "goops and glues" steps were needed. |
I don’t know about “goops and glues” but to properly fit the CompuFire electronic ignition which uses a black magnetic disc below the rotor… I had to file down the bottom of the rotor to allow enough space between the rotor and the cam. Without filing down the bottom of the rotor it sat too high and would actually lift the distributor cap as the rotor rotated.
While this is a mod needed to properly fit the magnetic disc it does not prevent reverting back to points. If/when the electronic points need to be removed and points reinstalled the same rotor can continue to be used, there will just be a larger gap between the cam and the bottom of the rotor. The top of the rotor sits at the same height as an unmodified rotor.
I have heard that some Pertronix style electronic modules need slight adjustments in the gap between the black magnetic cylinder and the face of the pickup that sits just outside the cylinder as it spins. This adjustment is the same as adjusting points. Just as where you adjusted your previous set of points doesn’t affect how you adjust your new points, these adjustments don’t prevent installing new points nor do they effect their adjustment.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Max Welton
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 11136
Location: Black Forest, CO
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| Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:57 am Post subject: Re: Electronic Points Conversion |
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Here's a little story about carrying spare stuff.
In four Berg Cruises and countless other cross-country trips, I've been shouldered only once. I was running a Compufire at the time but the 40-year-old Bosch coil is what died in Indio, CA. Not a spare coil among our 3-car group. It was in the middle of the night so we all just got a motel room till morning and borrowed a coil which I returned when we passed through Denver and got a new one at Painters Grinding.
Some time later, I was asked if I had started carrying a spare coil. Well ... no. I now had a nice new coil. The trick is to carry what you're going to need next, not what you needed last time.
For me, the 2006 Berg Cruise was 7110 miles start to finish over three weeks.
And I haven't been through Indio since then.
Here's another one involving a partial failure mode. It's long so I'll just link to it.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=5983918&highlight=coil#5983918
Max
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1967 Type-3 Fastback
Under the Knife https://shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=151582
Home Stretch https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=767836 |
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doug bugg
Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2003
Posts: 391
Location: Minneapolis
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: Electronic Points Conversion |
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I'll weigh in on this. I'm for the old point and condenser set-up, here's why. Twenty years ago I had a '69 with the old points and aside from the usual maintenance and occasional replacement I never had any issues. Then...
... fast forward to September of this year when a buddy gave me his '68 bug. He couldn't get it going after sitting a couple years and swore it wasn't the electrical system because his big buck Pertronix only had a few hundred miles on it. Turns out there wasn't anything else keeping it from starting other than a fuel leak: The electronic ignition was bad.
I threw a new set of plugs, wires and the old 009 distributor on it and it fired right up. Did the Pertronix go bad from sitting? I don't know, maybe. But to me that was enough to kill any previous attraction I had for electronic ignition. No issues since and, yes, I do carry a set of new quality points in the glovebox.
Just sharing my experience. |
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maggiolo72
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2013
Posts: 333
Location: Basel (CH)
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:52 pm Post subject: Re: Electronic Points Conversion |
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| Buy a 123 distributor and forget it.... |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80319
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: Electronic Points Conversion |
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| maggiolo72 wrote: |
| Buy a 123 distributor and forget it.... |
Do some research... there are plenty of problems posted on the interweb... you just have to look.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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maggiolo72
Samba Member
Joined: April 24, 2013
Posts: 333
Location: Basel (CH)
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: Electronic Points Conversion |
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| Really ? I have a 1302, a 1302 both with them, a friend on my club have it in a 6 cylinder 1924 Wolseley and in another 1952 Wolseley all are running without any problem.... |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 80319
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:17 pm Post subject: Re: Electronic Points Conversion |
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The MG and Triumlh forums have a number of issues including the Bluetooth versions.
Btw, I've never had a problem with points, but others have.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare
עַם יִשְׂרָאֵל חַי |
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Frank Bassman
Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2012
Posts: 904
Location: Miami
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Electronic Points Conversion |
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Funny thread.
If your mechanical ability allows, use points to trigger a TFI module. Use a real coil (e core) from an 80's ford/chevy if you find the canister coils don't last. (But can use stock.)
Does away with the condensor and if you so choose, you can run better plug wires and open up the spark plug gap up to 40 thou.
But again, can stick to stock coils plugs and wires with TFI. That's what Modok did and he turned me onto it. Never going back to just points and condensors, and never back to canister coils either.
-Frank |
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Jimbug57
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2002
Posts: 817
Location: Mid Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2021 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Electronic Points Conversion |
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Follow up:
The Compu-Fire # 21101 doesn't fit my 205 M, as in, no way no how. It went back together nicely though. I had to re-use the shim under the breaker plate because I forgot to order one. Re-used a couple other shims too because they were fine. I still need to get points and condenser from VWNOS though. The Compu-Fire is being returned. I'll just stick with points. It's what I know anyway.
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Repeat after me "I am smarter than metal!" |
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