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65 Ghia
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Tom K.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 9:20 am    Post subject: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

I'm starting the process of sorting through this Ghia bought off of Craigslist last spring. It's an ugly one for sure. Was originally green. Months of bodywork are coming my way. I think the PO even put his laundry under that black paint, haha, along with a tub or two of bondo. But I'll bring it back. The car and I were both born in '65. No structural rust yet that I could see. I'd like to return it to green maybe with a white top.

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I need to begin getting various missing parts. I'm new to these cars. Does this dash look reasonable complete?

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After market tach might stay or might go. Any thoughts?

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Same can be said if this aftermarket pedal cluster and gear knob - probably replace with Stock

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What goes in that hole?

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And how hard is it to find a descent period looking radio that works?

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And did that pressure gauge replace something stock in that spot?

Here is the engine. Not sure yet whether I will keep this or return to stock.


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DariuszPlich
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:10 am    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

He is not ugly at all Smile I see a lot of potential! A great base for reconstruction. Good luck and I'll watch;)
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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Quote:
Does this dash look reasonable complete?

The oil pressure gauge is a previous owner add on as is the red lite next to it. The rest looks good. Top of dash missing part is for a speaker plus a speaker cover, there are 3 and 4 row versions. 4 row for 65 as I recall.

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1945447

Those are probably just covers on the pedals, its the original pedal cluster under the press and sticks.
Looks like a Beetle hood pull under the dash.
I like tachs, you could find a better fitting and looking one IMO. Lots of options, use the search feature in Forums and Gallery. Same for a radio, use Search button in classifieds.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php...ords=radio
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overboost
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

If you decide to keep the engine, give that exhaust some love. The muffler hanging out on the merge looks out of place. I built my muffler to hide under the engine.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2021 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Congrats!
Welcome to the sickness.
It might take a bit to get to the finish line but once you do the satisfaction is immeasurable.
Please keep us updated on your progress Cool
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calvinater
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:08 am    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

If the dash is red why do you say the car was green?
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Tom K.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Thanks for the info, guys. I'm glad to know that the dash is mostly complete. I guess this dash never had that pad on top?

Yes, the muffler looks pitiful. I'm a stock engine kind of guy, and that engine looks like it might get me killed one day, haha. I'd like to test drive it just once to feel it out before I decide. Maybe before the tear down *if* the brakes are solid. If I stick with it, then your muffler looks much better.

The red dash was painted on. it's a nice color for sure, but the paint job itself is average at best. You can see the factory green to the left of the pedal cluster (behind the glue). The green is also in the doors and hood (not pictured). The interior seats, door cards, and headliner are also red. Hmm, maybe if the interior cleans up I'll go red? Needs carpet though. And it's *very* red inside - not sure what I think about that.

What do you make of this? Was the PO in the process of installing suicide doors or something?

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I never met him. I bought the car from a nice couple who had bought the car 15 years ago from the guy who made all of these mods. The couple never touched the car during their ownership - a project that never took flight I guess. Lucky they had plenty of garage space for it.
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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

yes on the doors, looks like a sad attempt at best. Order more welding wire.
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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:49 am    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

yes on the doors, looks like a sad attempt at best. Order more welding wire.
Originally the car had a black dash top. Your car has been apart and put back together several times. The windshield rubber is "Cal look: style, not original either.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/64-8_kg/seite05.jpg

Whats the overall goal? Return to stock, stock looking, modified? For me it's simpler to have a general plan to work towards.
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Tom K.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

c21darrel wrote:
Whats the overall goal? Return to stock, stock looking, modified? For me it's simpler to have a general plan to work towards.


Yes - a goal is important. I'm still working that out. I've driven beetle's since I was 16. I can inspect those and know immediately what's what. But I've never had a Ghia - never even ridden in a Ghia. I wasn't even planning to buy a Ghia. But I routinely scan Craigslist, and this one popped up for just $1,000 about an hour away. My Biden stimulus money had just hit my account the day before, so I grabbed the Ghia without thinking much. I liked that it was a '65. I thought I might just flip it. I've already sold some extra stuff that came with it - so I'm only $800 in at this point plus the cost of some recently purchased bumper pieces. A few have PM'd me asking to buy the performance engine (that I'm unlikely to want).

But now I'm hooked. These cars are beauties! My bugs suddenly look so plain and ordinary. My goal? Probably an 8/10 stock restoration. Only an 8/10 because I will be doing all of the work myself (I'm good enough but not great at body work - few are, right?). Only 8/10 because when it's done, I want to drive it every day except when the salt comes out here in PA. It will get its share of dings and spilled cups of coffee. But plans depend on how bad it is under that paint. It might be a 5/10 stock restoration if the body is already a total mess.

The nice couple that sold it to me included a second Ghia door to replace the door with those suicide holes (luckily only on the driver's side). But the door is from a later Ghia (indent under opening latch). I've had that door listed for sale here on Samba with no offers. So maybe I will sacrifice that door and cut pieces from it to fill those two holes rather than fabricate those intricate shapes - assuming they fit.

My problem is that I really don't know what is missing on this car. So, I'm hoping to submit to Samba more pictures of various sections of the car and learn what might be missing. Window and door trims in particular are a mystery to me.

Then I'll make my list and then dive into that paint to the great unknown.
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Starbucket
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:34 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Do you see the KGPR add at the bottom of the page, just go to their parts catalog and look for trim pieces for doors for your year. Remember just make it your own don't worry about stock. If the car sat that long look for rust and dead gas sludge throughout the fuel system and drain and flush brake system and before you try to start it turn the motor over ccw two revolutions with a wrench on the front pulley to make sure it hydro locked which could bend a rod.
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Tom K.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 10:51 am    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Yes - I'll be sorting through everything including wiring, hoses, and fuel lines. This will be my first Ghia project.

I'm still slowly inspecting the car. Missing are both mirrors (don't rat-rodders need to see behind them?) and the sun visors. Mirrors are pricey I'm sure. The headliner is red (like everything else inside) and looks to be in good shape. But it looks nothing like a Beetle's headliner. I'll have to pull it off to add the sun visors and mirror, and probably replace with the stock look. Does the Ghia have a second dome light on one side in addition to the one by the mirror?

I found two beauty rings in the back. But they are the solid kind. Probably not original to the '65.
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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Tom K. wrote:
Yes - I'll be sorting through everything including wiring, hoses, and fuel lines. This will be my first Ghia project.

I'm still slowly inspecting the car. Missing are both mirrors (don't rat-rodders need to see behind them?) and the sun visors. Mirrors are pricey I'm sure. The headliner is red (like everything else inside) and looks to be in good shape. But it looks nothing like a Beetle's headliner. I'll have to pull it off to add the sun visors and mirror, and probably replace with the stock look. Does the Ghia have a second dome light on one side in addition to the one by the mirror?

I found two beauty rings in the back. But they are the solid kind. Probably not original to the '65.


No need to pull the headliner (unless you want to) to find the sun visor/mirror mounting holes. Jut locate them with a small needle or pin. Mirrors arent cheap, prob 100-200 depending on condition and if you want to cobble one from parts. There are repop swan neck mirrors around $40ish.
Only the one dome light on the mirror.
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Ojai63dbl
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Welcome to the sickness!

good starting point and perfect year (I have a 65 also)

The 65 had a dash pad and you can get a fiberglass one from KGPR I think. I went with a painted dash as i like it better.

there is a dash grab handle (you might have cant tell)

tach- can convert clock to tach or ISP might have them now (often clock doesnt work well)

The pedal pads will pop off.

Radios are available in classifieds or you can go retro radio and i think they work

your horn and horn bar are correct for 65

wood shift knob was a popular swap (not original but looks nice)


floor mats are (?) available as well as sound deadening boards (look in the thread for the current source). Alot of people just use carpet - although i like floor mat better

Bumpers: source a set of used - there are year changes BTW, better than current stuff

and be sure to ask questions and look in Gallery for ideas

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_search.php...t_dir=DESC
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Rome
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 7:47 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Your engine lid is from a later Ghia such as '70 onwards. It has the plastic water tray under the vents. It also has a single hydraulic strut to hold it open, because your dual carb air cleaners would've contacted the two hood opening springs so that a PO removed the springs.

Also, your engine sheetmetal surround to the rear of the engine- which has those longitudinal ribs- is also from a later Ghia such as '67 onwards. So look for signs of crude welding on that panel. When VW started with the 1300 engine for the '66 model year, it had an oil bath air cleaner that hung to the right. The '65 Ghia still had the 1200 cc 40 hp engine and its air cleaner hung to the left, with the battery on the right. So for the '66, the battery was relocated to the left side of the engine bay. If your battery does not have rust underneath it, that would be an unexpected bonus. What I did for my '64 Ghia Cabrio's dual carbs was to relocate the battery to under the rear seat cushion in the location where it is on a Beetle. If you choose the battery size carefully (Group 42) the height still allows the seat cushion to sit almost fully down. Having the battery out of the engine compartment allows much better access to the right dual carb.

The '65 normally has a black pebble-grain vinyl dash cover with perforations for the radio grill. My '64 has its factory original cover. The separate radio grill was discontinued early in the '64 model year; my car was built in spring 1964 so that it's "late" in the model year and has that newer style.

You have the Ghia-correct knobs for the wiper and headlamps- another bonus. Your dash holes for the radio are original and uncut- quite a bonus. I would strongly recommend not to cut the dash to fit a new style radio that usually needs a larger rectangular opening. In all the 35+ years I've owned my Ghia, I rarely turn the radio on and prefer to listen to the engine and the driving sound. In my first years for building my engine I had some failures, so keeping the radio off let me hear the engine better. Embarassed Some people find a period-correct original style Ghia radio that fits the dash openings, and have the radio guts fitted for 12 V and modern components.

I suggest to keep your current engine, at least keep it in your possession if not using it for the car ultimately. My engine is a nearly stock 1600 dual-port with Weber 40 IDF dual carbs, and loves to run fast on the highway.
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Tom K.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:49 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Thanks, guys, for your tips and info. I spent a few hours with the Ghia yesterday. I'm still in the process of assessing things and acquiring missing items before paint stripping and metal work begins in the spring.

I am missing the exterior chrome 'scraper' trim along all four windows. Expensive stuff. I'm also missing the scuff sill plates. And I am missing the arm rests on the door cards. Is this stuff any cheaper at the VW shows relative to Samba?

My dash does not have the handle - I'm guessing the mounting holes were filled in for painting. I have not seen the grab handle for sale anywhere
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I removed a bunch of stuff. I'll start with what looks to be mostly good news. The package tray area looks pretty solid - this area usually rusts out in old beetles.
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The headliner is fine (if you like red)
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The floor pans look aftermarket to me, but the dogleg areas appear original and mostly solid. Some metal work will be needed but hopefully nothing too invasive. Note the extra wiring harness for the dash toys. Note also a blue paint behind the glue on the passenger side - a replacement piece for sure
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The heat tubes are intact - even the cable tubes are present and accounted for:
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The pop out windows work
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And the front crown section, when viewed from the inside, is largely unmolested although the lower metal probably needs replacing
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Here is the front hood (no spare tire)
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I guess I'm starting to feeling pretty good about this project - although I hope I don't get too cocky.

Some troubled areas for sure. First the spare tire well metal looks pretty bad - the big ugly hole is for the bumper bracket. The rest has POR 15 - I really hate finding that stuff.
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Second - I see an ugly sheet metal repair (see the corner?) when looking back from the quarter panel on the drivers side. I'll have to address that.
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I also have a few questions. First - is this switch, located to the left of the pedal cluster, for high beams? Factory?
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Second, with the door cards (also red - too much!) I found two arm rests. Factory?
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Third, with the door hardware is that long pole with a white knob. What is that for?
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Fourth, these rear seats and covers look original. Any value in trying to save these? Or is new upholstery the usual step?
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Finally, these unwanted mufflers were in the car. Is there a market for this stuff?
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Ian Godfrey
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

long pole with white nob = hand brake release
dimmer switch looks correct to me
others will know more
great car
good luck
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c21darrel
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 2:37 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

arm rests, aftermarket.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php...s=arm+rest
Samba classifieds to off the stuff you wont be using.
Look from inside to see where dash handle holes are. Find replacement in classifieds, pretty common.
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2432582
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

As far as the mufflers are concerned list as local pick up or sell on Crags list as the shipping now days will void any sale when you find out it's $50 .00 to ship a used muffler. If you are on a budget you can buy Vinal spray paint to get rid of that awful red.
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Tom K.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 07, 2022 7:22 pm    Post subject: Re: 65 Ghia Reply with quote

Starbucket wrote:
If you are on a budget you can buy Vinal spray paint to get rid of that awful red.


Haha, "awful red". Glad someone out there agrees. I might just give it a shot!
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