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theKbStockpiler Samba Member

Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:16 pm Post subject: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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Sounds like it would be a good choice for a bus/ghia becase it is a inline engine with a aluminum block and higher HP output. For a type I it would stick out too far though. Is anyone aware of this being done?
Thanks in advance!  _________________ My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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ps2375 Samba Member

Joined: April 24, 2014 Posts: 2508 Location: Meridian,ID
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Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:57 pm Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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Seems the same as any other motor swap from a flat4 to an inline. You still need to add all the cooling stuff that you didn't have before. And which Mazda3 motor are you talking about, a port injected or a Direct Injected motor? Or are you going to a either and toss a carb onto it? Sounds like that would be a waste of time. |
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TinCanFab Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 2743 Location: Waterford, California
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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 am Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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theKbStockpiler wrote: |
Sounds like it would be a good choice for a bus/ghia becase it is a inline engine with a aluminum block and higher HP output. For a type I it would stick out too far though. Is anyone aware of this being done?
Thanks in advance!  |
Early busses definately won't fit an inline engine because of length and height. You can fit a TDI engine in a vanagon with mods to the oil pan, pickup tube and an adapter that re-clocks it at an angle. _________________ Check out my truck brought back from the dead... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=420762&highlight=sprayed+blood
They're never really ever finished 58 rag build...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658092 |
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Northof49 Samba Member

Joined: July 22, 2013 Posts: 1759 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:02 am Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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The slope of the rear deck lid on a ghia would typically not leave enough height for an inline 4 without cutting into the deck lid. _________________ 1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
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Dale M. Samba Member

Joined: April 12, 2006 Posts: 20772 Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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Just seems to me the the form factor of Subaru flat four would fit so much better... But there is still the H2O to deal with...
Dale _________________ “Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns"
"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ... |
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Northof49 Samba Member

Joined: July 22, 2013 Posts: 1759 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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Here's my abomination I ran for years.
_________________ 1958 Karmann Ghia owner |
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theKbStockpiler Samba Member

Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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Thanks for the responses!
I toy with the idea of a swap but the hurdle in a type I is too great in my opinion. A subaru swap inherits some of the same problems as the air cooled stocker.
Any thoughts on a Rx8 swap? They are a lighter rotary with good power. _________________ My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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TinCanFab Samba Member
Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 2743 Location: Waterford, California
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Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:35 am Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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theKbStockpiler wrote: |
Thanks for the responses!
I toy with the idea of a swap but the hurdle in a type I is too great in my opinion. A subaru swap inherits some of the same problems as the air cooled stocker.
Any thoughts on a Rx8 swap? They are a lighter rotary with good power. |
I have never done a rotary swap, but I've read a few threads where other people have done it. One of the unexpected things you might find, is the powerband of the engine doesn't work well with the VW trans. The rotary is a fast and high revving engine that spins the trans faster than it was designed for. "They" say it's a tranny killer. _________________ Check out my truck brought back from the dead... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=420762&highlight=sprayed+blood
They're never really ever finished 58 rag build...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=658092 |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6136 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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My favorite that I actually saw as A bug with Mid Engine V8 Had perfect row of 8 pipes out the back.
Best Part the engine - 8.2 L 375 Hp 525 lbs torque.
1967 Caddy Front wheel drive engine and tranny, turned around so the wheels are in the rear. The engine sat behind the front seats and had a cover. Side windows were blackened.
Looked stock except for the 8 pipes, fat rear tires and the License Plate Frame that read
" Porsche's for Breakfast -- Corvettes for Lunch" _________________ email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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skills@eurocarsplus Samba Peckerhead

Joined: January 01, 2007 Posts: 17785 Location: sticksville, ct.
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Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:53 pm Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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theKbStockpiler wrote: |
A subaru swap inherits some of the same problems as the air cooled stocker.. |
like what? please don't say head gaskets....if properly built, with quality aftermarket gaskets you'll have sold the car well before they need replacement.
even at that, OEM have been re designed to combat a poor initial design. proper coolant type is important here too....
I will play devils advocate here....
even if you ate head gaskets at 120k miles (seems to be the average on old design gaskets) there isn't an aircooled on this planet that will go that long with just oil changes and spark plugs _________________
gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
Jake Raby wrote: |
Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
Brian wrote: |
Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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nextgen Samba Member
Joined: August 19, 2004 Posts: 6136 Location: CONGERS, N.Y.
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Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:42 am Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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Early 2000's Subaru's had head gasket and wheel bearing problems.
Trust me, my wife had a Forester. Loved the car, handled and drove great, but It went through 2 heads and several wheel bearings.. before 60 k, Lucky i paid for the extended warranted. I forget what years had the problems I think she had a 02 or 03. Gave us a bad taste for Subies and went Toyoda. Never a problem but now the Subie guys say the same. I guess they figured it out, or we would have heard about it.
. _________________ email: [email protected]
The TYPE IV UPRIGHT CONVERSION MANUAL
BEETLE MAGNETIC DEFLECTOR SHIELDS
LETS TALK DUBS https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=joe+cali+ghia https://letstalkdubs.libsyn.com/ep-200-joe-cali-ty...qI3xJTCzjs |
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theKbStockpiler Samba Member

Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:24 pm Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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Quote: |
I will play devils advocate here....
even if you ate head gaskets at 120k miles (seems to be the average on old design gaskets) there isn't an aircooled on this planet that will go that long with just oil changes and spark plugs |
My main dislike for the 'subaru solution' is that like a acvw engine, the best way to approach a engine rebuild is with a new case and heads. You can't offer a price for a used subaru/vw engine that is much more than what it is worth in weight because of the likely hood that they can't be rebuilt. If you don't want to get burned on a used vw/subaru engine you HAVE to inspect them torn down first or pay close to nothing for them. If you are buying a 'parts lot' it might average out that you get a deal but singularly it's a losing hand at poker.
So for the subaru rebuild price list :
1- ($1400) for a new case.
2- Go back to the idea of a acvw engine because the subaru is not hands down a better option and will deplete the character of a acvw.
3-Keep looking for a complete Rx8 parts car.  _________________ My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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modok Samba Member

Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 27592 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:43 pm Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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Mazda engines do not use numbers.
They use letter codes.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mazda_engines
Since the old hondas turn backwards....
can you use a honda engine and a subaru trans?
Best of both brands!!! |
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the2ndcashboy Samba Member

Joined: March 19, 2007 Posts: 827 Location: Houston
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Posted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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theKbStockpiler wrote: |
Quote: |
I will play devils advocate here....
even if you ate head gaskets at 120k miles (seems to be the average on old design gaskets) there isn't an aircooled on this planet that will go that long with just oil changes and spark plugs |
My main dislike for the 'subaru solution' is that like a acvw engine, the best way to approach a engine rebuild is with a new case and heads. You can't offer a price for a used subaru/vw engine that is much more than what it is worth in weight because of the likely hood that they can't be rebuilt. If you don't want to get burned on a used vw/subaru engine you HAVE to inspect them torn down first or pay close to nothing for them. If you are buying a 'parts lot' it might average out that you get a deal but singularly it's a losing hand at poker.
So for the subaru rebuild price list :
1- ($1400) for a new case.
2- Go back to the idea of a acvw engine because the subaru is not hands down a better option and will deplete the character of a acvw.
3-Keep looking for a complete Rx8 parts car.  |
Where are you going to get an ACVW motor that puts out ~200hp for 3k$ (with a 3 year warranty too)? http://m.ebay.com/itm/371489654285
I think that's a big reason people are going subaru. If you want anything more than stock hp, Subaru's are cheaper. _________________
SRP1 wrote: |
You see....... He talks in code and translation requires a priest, geologist, astronomer, biophysicist, and Indiana Jones. |
modok wrote: |
If anything comes out perfect it just means your measuring tools are substandard. |
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modok Samba Member

Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 27592 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:26 pm Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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the dohc ej25 is the worst engine subaru ever made.
Can we choose a different model PLEASE |
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the2ndcashboy Samba Member

Joined: March 19, 2007 Posts: 827 Location: Houston
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:43 pm Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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modok wrote: |
the dohc ej25 is the worst engine subaru ever made.
Can we choose a different model PLEASE |
Eh, it was just the first longblock that came up in a quick google. It's kinda sad though that the "worst engine subaru ever made" will last longer, make more power, and costs less than what's available in the ACVW world. People scream bloody murder about the subaru head gaskets failing at 60k. A 200hp VW motor is already well into a new valve job by then. Hell, how many 200 hp ACVW's even MAKE it to 60k? _________________
SRP1 wrote: |
You see....... He talks in code and translation requires a priest, geologist, astronomer, biophysicist, and Indiana Jones. |
modok wrote: |
If anything comes out perfect it just means your measuring tools are substandard. |
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modok Samba Member

Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 27592 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:27 pm Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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It's the first to pop up because it's a big seller LOL
If they USE the 200hp regularly the life of the engine definitely goes down.
Most examples I've seen with 100k the cylinders are .004" out of round, the line bore is out of spec, and the deck surface is warped. IMO the block is letting go of the head gasket not the head! There were also problems with cracked ring lands in the turbo versions. How would you feel if you were installing a piston and the ring land fell out......for me, I decided, we need new pistons every time! They did a great job of extracting every possible CC and HP out of that platform but it is "on the edge" and easily pushed past it. I've rebuilt several but the cost usually exceeds buying a new one.
I'm not STUCK in any particular era of technology, I rather like them all! But I feel the way to go is pick the CLASSICS and enjoy. The best stuff of any era is something to appreciate. Classics never go out of style. But I feel the DOHC ej25 is in the category of.....lets move on. Now the 2.0......that's a good one. OR the flat six subi!!! get the smaller cc flat six!!!! |
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theKbStockpiler Samba Member

Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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Unless the 2.5 is used or the quad cam,we are looking at about 125 Hp with a twin cam engine from the specs I have seen in stock form. _________________ My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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Howard 111 Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2005 Posts: 1827 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:59 pm Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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I just don't like strange engine swaps. The VW engine can be made to make tremendous HP. That's why this forum exists. _________________ 1973 Karmann Ghia
Turbocharged, Fuel Injected
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531270 |
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the2ndcashboy Samba Member

Joined: March 19, 2007 Posts: 827 Location: Houston
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Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:11 pm Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? |
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theKbStockpiler wrote: |
Unless the 2.5 is used or the quad cam,we are looking at about 125 Hp with a twin cam engine from the specs I have seen in stock form. |
I looked it up, cause I've only heard ballpark numbers thrown around on the Subaru motors.
EJ20 SOHC ranged from 125-155 hp at the wheels.
EJ25 DOHC and SOHC were 155-165 hp, also at the wheels.
The turbo versions of each engine produced dramatically more HP of course.
How many street-driven ACVW's have you seen that put down an honest 150hp to the ground? _________________
SRP1 wrote: |
You see....... He talks in code and translation requires a priest, geologist, astronomer, biophysicist, and Indiana Jones. |
modok wrote: |
If anything comes out perfect it just means your measuring tools are substandard. |
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