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Mazda 3 engine swap?
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theKbStockpiler
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 6:16 pm    Post subject: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

Sounds like it would be a good choice for a bus/ghia becase it is a inline engine with a aluminum block and higher HP output. For a type I it would stick out too far though. Is anyone aware of this being done?

Thanks in advance! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

Seems the same as any other motor swap from a flat4 to an inline. You still need to add all the cooling stuff that you didn't have before. And which Mazda3 motor are you talking about, a port injected or a Direct Injected motor? Or are you going to a either and toss a carb onto it? Sounds like that would be a waste of time.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:14 am    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

theKbStockpiler wrote:
Sounds like it would be a good choice for a bus/ghia becase it is a inline engine with a aluminum block and higher HP output. For a type I it would stick out too far though. Is anyone aware of this being done?

Thanks in advance! Very Happy


Early busses definately won't fit an inline engine because of length and height. You can fit a TDI engine in a vanagon with mods to the oil pan, pickup tube and an adapter that re-clocks it at an angle.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

The slope of the rear deck lid on a ghia would typically not leave enough height for an inline 4 without cutting into the deck lid.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

Just seems to me the the form factor of Subaru flat four would fit so much better... But there is still the H2O to deal with...

Dale
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

Here's my abomination I ran for years.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses!
I toy with the idea of a swap but the hurdle in a type I is too great in my opinion. A subaru swap inherits some of the same problems as the air cooled stocker.

Any thoughts on a Rx8 swap? They are a lighter rotary with good power.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:35 am    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

theKbStockpiler wrote:
Thanks for the responses!
I toy with the idea of a swap but the hurdle in a type I is too great in my opinion. A subaru swap inherits some of the same problems as the air cooled stocker.

Any thoughts on a Rx8 swap? They are a lighter rotary with good power.


I have never done a rotary swap, but I've read a few threads where other people have done it. One of the unexpected things you might find, is the powerband of the engine doesn't work well with the VW trans. The rotary is a fast and high revving engine that spins the trans faster than it was designed for. "They" say it's a tranny killer.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

My favorite that I actually saw as A bug with Mid Engine V8 Had perfect row of 8 pipes out the back.

Best Part the engine - 8.2 L 375 Hp 525 lbs torque.

1967 Caddy Front wheel drive engine and tranny, turned around so the wheels are in the rear. The engine sat behind the front seats and had a cover. Side windows were blackened.

Looked stock except for the 8 pipes, fat rear tires and the License Plate Frame that read

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

theKbStockpiler wrote:
A subaru swap inherits some of the same problems as the air cooled stocker..


like what? please don't say head gaskets....if properly built, with quality aftermarket gaskets you'll have sold the car well before they need replacement.

even at that, OEM have been re designed to combat a poor initial design. proper coolant type is important here too....

I will play devils advocate here....

even if you ate head gaskets at 120k miles (seems to be the average on old design gaskets) there isn't an aircooled on this planet that will go that long with just oil changes and spark plugs
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

Early 2000's Subaru's had head gasket and wheel bearing problems.

Trust me, my wife had a Forester. Loved the car, handled and drove great, but It went through 2 heads and several wheel bearings.. before 60 k, Lucky i paid for the extended warranted. I forget what years had the problems I think she had a 02 or 03. Gave us a bad taste for Subies and went Toyoda. Never a problem but now the Subie guys say the same. I guess they figured it out, or we would have heard about it.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

Quote:
I will play devils advocate here....

even if you ate head gaskets at 120k miles (seems to be the average on old design gaskets) there isn't an aircooled on this planet that will go that long with just oil changes and spark plugs


My main dislike for the 'subaru solution' is that like a acvw engine, the best way to approach a engine rebuild is with a new case and heads. You can't offer a price for a used subaru/vw engine that is much more than what it is worth in weight because of the likely hood that they can't be rebuilt. If you don't want to get burned on a used vw/subaru engine you HAVE to inspect them torn down first or pay close to nothing for them. If you are buying a 'parts lot' it might average out that you get a deal but singularly it's a losing hand at poker.

So for the subaru rebuild price list :

1- ($1400) for a new case.

2- Go back to the idea of a acvw engine because the subaru is not hands down a better option and will deplete the character of a acvw.

3-Keep looking for a complete Rx8 parts car. Laughing
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 8:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

Mazda engines do not use numbers.
They use letter codes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mazda_engines

Since the old hondas turn backwards....
can you use a honda engine and a subaru trans?
Best of both brands!!!
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

theKbStockpiler wrote:
Quote:
I will play devils advocate here....

even if you ate head gaskets at 120k miles (seems to be the average on old design gaskets) there isn't an aircooled on this planet that will go that long with just oil changes and spark plugs


My main dislike for the 'subaru solution' is that like a acvw engine, the best way to approach a engine rebuild is with a new case and heads. You can't offer a price for a used subaru/vw engine that is much more than what it is worth in weight because of the likely hood that they can't be rebuilt. If you don't want to get burned on a used vw/subaru engine you HAVE to inspect them torn down first or pay close to nothing for them. If you are buying a 'parts lot' it might average out that you get a deal but singularly it's a losing hand at poker.

So for the subaru rebuild price list :

1- ($1400) for a new case.

2- Go back to the idea of a acvw engine because the subaru is not hands down a better option and will deplete the character of a acvw.

3-Keep looking for a complete Rx8 parts car. Laughing


Where are you going to get an ACVW motor that puts out ~200hp for 3k$ (with a 3 year warranty too)? http://m.ebay.com/itm/371489654285

I think that's a big reason people are going subaru. If you want anything more than stock hp, Subaru's are cheaper.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

the dohc ej25 is the worst engine subaru ever made.
Can we choose a different model PLEASE
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

modok wrote:
the dohc ej25 is the worst engine subaru ever made.
Can we choose a different model PLEASE


Eh, it was just the first longblock that came up in a quick google. It's kinda sad though that the "worst engine subaru ever made" will last longer, make more power, and costs less than what's available in the ACVW world. People scream bloody murder about the subaru head gaskets failing at 60k. A 200hp VW motor is already well into a new valve job by then. Hell, how many 200 hp ACVW's even MAKE it to 60k?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

It's the first to pop up because it's a big seller LOL
If they USE the 200hp regularly the life of the engine definitely goes down.
Most examples I've seen with 100k the cylinders are .004" out of round, the line bore is out of spec, and the deck surface is warped. IMO the block is letting go of the head gasket not the head! There were also problems with cracked ring lands in the turbo versions. How would you feel if you were installing a piston and the ring land fell out......for me, I decided, we need new pistons every time! They did a great job of extracting every possible CC and HP out of that platform but it is "on the edge" and easily pushed past it. I've rebuilt several but the cost usually exceeds buying a new one.

I'm not STUCK in any particular era of technology, I rather like them all! But I feel the way to go is pick the CLASSICS and enjoy. The best stuff of any era is something to appreciate. Classics never go out of style. But I feel the DOHC ej25 is in the category of.....lets move on. Now the 2.0......that's a good one. OR the flat six subi!!! get the smaller cc flat six!!!!
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

Unless the 2.5 is used or the quad cam,we are looking at about 125 Hp with a twin cam engine from the specs I have seen in stock form.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 6:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

I just don't like strange engine swaps. The VW engine can be made to make tremendous HP. That's why this forum exists.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Mazda 3 engine swap? Reply with quote

theKbStockpiler wrote:
Unless the 2.5 is used or the quad cam,we are looking at about 125 Hp with a twin cam engine from the specs I have seen in stock form.


I looked it up, cause I've only heard ballpark numbers thrown around on the Subaru motors.

EJ20 SOHC ranged from 125-155 hp at the wheels.
EJ25 DOHC and SOHC were 155-165 hp, also at the wheels.
The turbo versions of each engine produced dramatically more HP of course.

How many street-driven ACVW's have you seen that put down an honest 150hp to the ground?
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