Electronic ignition ignition wires-the truth?

[Backtotheeightiesagain]

From looking at a few retailers websites it seems that they do not have are definite facts on what ignition wires to use and why.
Some (powerspark, uk) list use only silicone non copper leads or interference will.....
123 ignition, Denmark/Netherlands said copper is fine.
Each one differing answers but no real evidence.
Maybe bs to 'link sell' new parts you didn't need....
I don't have a degree in electronics or electro magnetic fields but someone out there will!
All the new vw I worked on years ago came with bosch electronic ignition, all with copper wires. Bosch certainly knew back then how to make quality systems. So I like copper. It lasts.
The aftermarket stuff feels cheap.
As I can't find decent OE type 4 leads with the correct ends,
So what is the best performance lead (especially for upgrading to CDI)???
Or is copper still OK?!

[dunk]

If using cdi, imo..

Msd for example, don't recommend solid core wires.

So go for low resistance per foot helically wound , you're looking at-

taylor thundervolt 8.2,
msd superconductor,
moroso ultra 40.

Or similar.

If type 1 just buy the taylors from CB. Great price.

You can buy these wires per foot and make your own.

Non resistor plugs would be nice.

Don't forget to remove the resistor from the rotor arm if it has one. The extra power of cdi will burn it out.

[mikedjames]

In the UK the Accuspark silicone wires sold on eBay for instance have spiral wound cores identical to Taylor Spiro Pro for a lot less money - I have had both types but changed because I am using a wasted spark system and needed different plug ends. Used with points, electronic modules until I gave up on replacing them, points until I gave up on replacing new condensers, EDIS. ..

The 123 is electrically just a points replacement like the in- distributor electronic( hot failure )modules we all get sold with different branding. So the spark energy is the same or slightly less than with points ( the transistors used feed the coil with 1 volt less than points so for some coils the energy stored may be a little less). .So plug wires should all be the same style. Maybe when we all used AM radio you could hear it. Apparently with DAB radio and an engine at 3000 rpm the spark pulses neatly jam it too..

Where the 123 wins is that it has really stable timing with vacuum advance and is well made and new.
_________________
Ancient vehicles and vessels

1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.

1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy

[runamoc]

[DesertSasquatchXploration]

Tons Performance, screw MSD Taylor Moroso ETC
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[dunk]

[oprn]

I am running Ford's EDIS 4 on my type 4 engine. I went down to my local NAPA and bought a set of wires for a mid 80's Ford V8 and picked 4 wires out of the set that closest matched the length I needed.

Done.
_________________
Our cars get old, we get old but driving an old VW never gets old!

[runamoc]

[Backtotheeightiesagain]

Yes taking all that in.
Am already doing the rotor mod, if the solder iron can cope well on that size copper.
I just want to buy leads that work and last a good while. They were made to size, how come it's my job now?! Maybe they are better at crimping properly....
Aren't most of the silicone fancy colour ones carbon core?
That was what people binned in the 1970s.
NGK did years ago excellent blue and clear see through wound ones, if I could get something similar to them then I'd try them.
Ps is that crane Xr700 optical system reliable...?
Or is points and CD I a better option?

[Backtotheeightiesagain]

MIKEDJAMES
What modules have you got through that bust?
I liked the factory bosch electronic type 4 ignition till bosch gave up making parts/anything useful
/there are no good hall units that last.
I checked and they are ok to 125*c. They seem to fry less in front engine water cooled cars.
In fact I never changed one in them.
Is accuspark better than the others (pertronix etc gone to the dogs now)?
That stuff in bromsgrove store seems more toys r us than O.E.
About 3 different brands for the type 4 leads listed as one confused mess,
then another sort completely actually on the shelf .

[Backtotheeightiesagain]

I am calling bull on the special plug lead requirements.
An American company with a distributor tester measuring with an oscilloscope doing the R&D for 123 distributors on YouTube said it was possible- but not certain to affect it.
Anyway 123 ignored that and recommend copper.
Am going to adapt a crane fireball Xr700 to replace bosch hall and see what happens.
If anyone has pics or measurements of the shutter wheel disc post .
I'd much appreciate it, ta...

[raygreenwood]

[BFB]

I think with any ecm or computer circuitry you're supposed to run resistor plugs, wires, etc. doesnt mean you necessarily have to, but from my understanding they create an emp that can fry the ecms. from what ive been told , if you had an old car and ran just straight copper wire ( not sure if itd have to be bare or not ) you could create enough of a field to disrupt modern cars next to you at a light. true or not? I dont know, sounds plausible though.
ive ran non resistor plugs with quite a few Black Boxes and they've been ok but they are also on rail Buggys & Bajas and not in a closed engine bay which would probably make a difference.
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An interesting thing happens in forums where everyone starts parroting the same thing and "common knowledge" takes over.
Most experts aren't.

[mikedjames]

[vamram]

I've never had an issue w/Compu-Fire that I didn't cause myself (damaging a wire, insufficiently tightening down the hold down bolt on the points plate). I've had Pertronix & Hot Sparks burn out. The latter are truly crap. But I'd buy a Compu-Fire or Accu-Fire (knock-off of the former) w/out a 2nd thought.
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'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
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[Backtotheeightiesagain]

There are a couple of electronic ignitions from FAST.
Formally known as the crane fireball xr700.
I think were american not chinese made.
Im thinking of trying them, if anyone has experience good or bad?
Maybe better than whats let mikedj down severely.....
Ps its optical and requires ballast, so need foolproof rewiring directions.
The add on boxes = CDI ,retaining points seeeeeem better cant warranty that

[mikedjames]

If you have a distributor with backlash in its drive and centrifugal advance, the advantage of points is that it provides some friction from the points cam follower, holding the backlash at one end of its travel.

If the idle is lumpy, and you get your timing off a sensor in a distributor housing downstream of a timing gear and a dog drive, the engine speeding up and slowing down may cause the timing to bounce back and forwards because of the backlash, ending up with worse timing scatter than driving an amplifier off the points or a CDI off points.

And the backlash induced timing shift can make the idle lumpier too.
_________________
Ancient vehicles and vessels

1974 VW T2 : Devon Eurovette camper with 1641 DP T1 engine, Progressive carb, full flow oil cooler, EDIS crank timed ignition.
Engine 1: 40k miles (rocker shaft clip fell off), Engine 2: 30k miles (rebuild, dropped valve). Engine 3: a JK Preservation Parts "new" engine, aluminium case: 26k miles: new top end.
Gearbox rebuild 2021 by Bears.

1979 Westerly GK24 24 foot racer/cruiser yacht Forethought of Gosport.
1973 wooden Pacer sailing dinghy

[jim martin]

I run and make my own sets from MSD wires ,have gone through so many other brands and have experienced everything from cylinders dropping out under load to intermittent misfires. I tell you not what you need at hi mph . But Not with MSD wires . Quality product in my opinion.
Off topic .
If you have ever melted caps , rotors ect yes and even with real MSD brand caps and rotors fyi ,you most likely have hi resistance in the secondary ignition circuit. Tighten your gap way down and measure your lead resistance . Hi resistance causes major unnecessary voltage increase and results in excessive heat being generated. You don’t need to run a .028-.035 gap with a cdi ignition. Adding this after a pm , think this way every gap takes voltage to overcome the air gap . If you have a high plug gap and the gap to dist cap to rotor is large you get it . Spark jumping in cap and heat and melting and no spark at plug under load .Tighten that gap down .
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[jpaull]

[raygreenwood]