blinker / e flasher problem 67 12v

[telford dorr]

For what it's worth, the turn signal bulb holder should connect to 12 volts, not ground. That's why it has a screw terminal and a plastic mount (left side in pic below):

Because of these vehicle's age, all the electrical contacts and bulb sockets need a periodic buffing and cleaning.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)

[Eric&Barb]

Good to hear it is all working. Sounds like mayhaps the brass tab the bulb holder touches to might have had some corrosion stopping the electrical flow. You might need to slightly bend that brass tab slightly for a more spring tension contact pressure against the bulb holder.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available!

[shanks]

Solved!! Thanks again Eric&Barb!

Electrical still confounds me since this solution was weird. First I installed a new oil pressure sender that checked out electrically. Then, I switched the generator and oil pressure bulbs, holders, and attached wires to see if I was having an issue with the speedometer housing. The generator light came on (on the right side) and the oil pressure did not (on the left side). Switched them back to the correct sides and swapped the holders and bulbs, still got a generator light but no oil pressure which indicated to me that it wasn't the bulb or holder. So I pulled the oil pressure holder out and in doing so it touched the ignition switch live wire. Light came on! Put it back in the speedo and I get both generator and oil pressure lights with key on. Started the engine and both go out.
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1965 Beetle
1967 Deluxe Microbus
1969 Squareback

[Eric&Barb]

Personally we just use OG VW oil pressure switches on our VWs. Have had no problems with those, and easy to find at most any swap meet or local engine rebuilder shop for hardly nothing.

Wondering if perhaps the bulb or bulb holder is shorting out, if that could burn the switch points in the sender....
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available!

[Eric&Barb]

Another way to check bulb holder and bulb is to switch the oil pressure and generator bulb/bulb holders. If the problem "no light" switches over to the generator then that bulb and/or bulb holder is the problem. Then you can sort that further out by just switching the bulbs. If problem switches over the bulb is the problem. If the problem does not switch sides, then the bulb holder is the faulty part.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available!

[Eric&Barb]

Here is an image of the front of the speedometer:

The black plastic thing on the RH side in the image above is the bulb holder for the oil pressure, and gen. The black plastic insulates electrically those two bulbs from the speedometer body, so those ground farther down the wiring system. EG the oil pressure sender grounds that bulb to the engine case, and the other inside the regulator.

Turn signal, dash lights, and the headlight bright are rigged up to ground to the speedometer. So if both of the dash bulbs do not work, might be a speedometer ground problem.
_________________
In Stereo, Where Available!

[shanks]

Thanks Eric&Barb. So I compared the new bulb and holder to another new spare I have and I think they are working correctly. The bulbs themselves have continuity between the contact on the bottom and the bulb housing which tells me the filament is good. The holders have continuity between the tab and contact but not to the housing with no bulb installed. With bulbs installed they have continuity from the tab to the housing which all makes sense to me.

If I understand the circuit correctly, power is supplied to the bulb with the key on from pin 15 on the ignition switch which also feeds the generator light and blinker indicator (they both work). With no oil pressure the switch is closed so the power goes to ground at the engine case completing the circuit and lighting the bulb. With oil pressure the switch is open and no path to ground so no light. Is this correct?

What I don't understand is the ground at the speedo. The speedo housing itself is grounded. How do I check this? I think this is what I see when I get continuity between the tab on the oil pressure bulb holder and the speedo housing. The bulb holders slide into holes in the speedo so that the housing is electrically in contact the housing. So why doesn't this complete the circuit?

It makes sense to me that I should be able to ground the wire at the engine and get a light, which does not happen even though I am reading 11.5V with a DVM between the wire and engine case. If there was a short in the bulb or holder would I still see this voltage?

How would I check for a short at the bulb or housing as suggested?

The sender is bad. I pulled it today and cleaned it with carb cleaner with no luck. I do not have continuity between the tab and the housing as I should. It is a Hella unit made in Mexico. Anything else I can try to get it working? If not, where can I find a decent replacement?

Thanks for the help! I'm slowly becoming less of a novice at electrical.
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1965 Beetle
1967 Deluxe Microbus
1969 Squareback

[Eric&Barb]

[shanks]

Thanks to all here I have made a bunch of progress. Went through all the wiring and corrected the problems. Fuse 8 is now hot all the time, fuse 7 is hot with the key on, the bus starts and shuts off as it should, lights all work. I also now have a working generator light and blinker indicator. My final thing is the oil pressure light, it does not light up. I checked continuity of the wire from the engine to the speedo. I have a new bulb and holder installed with continuity through the bulb, from the tab to the bulb holder, and from the tab to the speedo housing. With the key on I grounded the wire at the engine to the case but get no light. Voltage between the wire and case with key on is 11.5V. No continuity between oil pressure sender tab and engine case which I think indicates sender may be bad. What could be wrong?
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1965 Beetle
1967 Deluxe Microbus
1969 Squareback

[Eric&Barb]

[Jade]

[Eric&Barb]

[Jade]

Is the dash pull-switch no longer for sale new for spit-busses? Mine is bad.

I have 2 different issues as to why the emergency flashers aren't working. Tested the switch and then tried using Matt Roberds troubleshooting guide and I think I will have to run a 2 or 3 prong universal flasher switch. I'm running a dual relay system I put in some 12 years ago from ??? and the turn signals work, but when I bypass the flasher switch nothing happens.

Not sure.

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'66 11 window

[shanks]

Had some time this weekend to work on this a bit more. I installed a new wire from fuse 7 to terminal 15 on the 9-pin box instead of a jumper. Took the bus for a spin and all lights and blinkers appeared to be working correctly. Got home and went to shut off the engine and nothing happened. I could turn the ignition to off and remove the key and it kept running. Popped the clutch to stall the engine and removed the negative battery terminal. Time for more wiring checks.

I pulled the speedo cable and package tray to get at all the wiring. Pulled ignition switch and tested it with a battery and test light. With power applied to terminal 30 and key off nothing at terminals 15 and 50, check. Key on, power at terminal 15, check. Key in start position, power at terminal 50, check. So ignition switch is working.

First issue I found was the wiring to ignition and headlight switch. Ignition was wired directly to fuse 7 and headlight switch was wired directly to fuse 8. Waiting on some OG style terminals and it will be fixed. Second, no wires from headlight pin 57 to parking lights. Need to add some wires for this.

More to come I'm sure as I keep going through the wiring. I'll post my findings here for others to follow.
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1965 Beetle
1967 Deluxe Microbus
1969 Squareback

[telford dorr]

[shanks]

Thanks telford door! So happy there is help out there for an electrical novice like me!

Initially it failed step 1 and fuse 7 was good. I tried chasing the wire from terminal 15 on the 9-pin box but couldn't figure out where it goes (really cold here today so did not want to stay in garage too long). There is an inline fuse in this wire that was good and a PO had spliced in a couple of other wires to this wire for some reason. So I installed a jumper between fuse 7 and terminal 15. It passed all the tests and the blinkers work as normal. Except... they work with either the key on or off. I tried the jumper on both sides of fuse 7 with the same result. Still no blinker indicator, speedo light, oil pressure, or generator light in speedo.

So this tells me that fuse 7 is hot all the time when it should only be hot with the ignition on based on the wiring diagram. So I'll need to chase down the wires and where they go. Is there a problem having fuse 7 hot all the time or can I leave as is with the addition of a power wire to terminal 15?
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1965 Beetle
1967 Deluxe Microbus
1969 Squareback

[telford dorr]

For reference:

1 - With the key on, check terminal 15 on the 9-pin relay and make sure that there's power there. If not, check fuse #7 (also powers the brake lights and wipers).
2 - Assuming test #1 passes, now connect the test light to 9-pin relay terminal 49. Does it light up? Does it flash?
3 - Assuming test #2 passes (it flashed), connect the test light to terminal 54BL (black/green/white wire on the turn signal switch. Does it light up? Does it flash?
4 - Assuming test #43 passed, move the turn switch to the left and right turn positions. Alternately connect the test light to turn switch VR (black/green wire) and HR ((black/red wire)(right turn), and VL (black/white wire) and HL (black/yellow wire) (left turn). It should light up and flash on the stated terminals for the stated position of the turn switch.

Note: for all tests, the other end of the test light connects to a good body ground.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST)

[shanks]

Resurrecting this old thread since I have similar issues with my 1967 Deluxe 12v with mostly original wiring.

Started down the wiring path because I had no blinker, brake or tail lights. First discovered that the power wire to pin 30 on the 9-pin box was missing so I replaced it. I cleaned and rewired the brake switch wires and used the troubleshooting guide here http://www.type2.com/library/electris/vw-9prong.html and in another thread here on The Samba to discover that I had a problem with the box. The input signal to pin 54 was not being output to pin 54f. So I installed a new 9-pin box from Wolfsburg West. Also installed new tail light housings since the bulb holders were shot and mostly fell apart when I removed the bulbs and wires for cleaning. Both housings are grounded directly to the body. I have the correct response for terminals VL, VR, 56f, and 49a per the above troubleshooting guide. And I have good working brake and tail lights. I did not get the speedo lights to work but haven't pulled the shelf to look at the speedo wiring.

Still no blinkers or emergency flashers though. So I pulled apart the turn signal switch on the column and cleaned it with contact cleaner. I now have emergency flashers on all 4 corners but no blinker indicator in the speedo when they are on. The light in the flasher switch works and the relay clicks. The wiring of the turn signal switch looks to be in line with the wiring diagram with all the correct color wires soldered to the board. When I activate the turn signals I get no response at the lights and no clicking. This indicates to me that the problem may be in the switch but it checked out with the procedures above. Is there a more detailed check of the switch that I can do? Any other suggestions?
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1965 Beetle
1967 Deluxe Microbus
1969 Squareback

[olliehank47]

[BarryL]