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baldessariclan
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Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 2159
Location: Wichita, KS
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 Posted: Thu May 08, 2025 3:00 am Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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| Chinaclipper wrote: |
| bsairhead wrote: |
If that's a dimple on the rear side of your pulley at 6 1/2 before TDC. You need to go back to the drawing board.
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Hmm. I guess I have figured the dimple was 5° ATDC......Honestly I am not sure that IS a dimple on the rear side. Maybe its just a paint mark by the PO?... I'll sand it a bit with some 1500 or so.....
Am I wrong?
If so I am still running a bit retarded........ |
I see no “TDC dimple” on the rear flange of the pulley in your pics — only the small “V notch” on the forward flange, which is presumably at 5° ATDC. Am thinking this is most likely the original pulley that would have come stock on that AE code engine from the factory.
If you want to see what a “TDC dimple” looks like and where located on a pulley, refer back to the 1st and 3rd pages of this thread — some good pics back there from Glenn, Ashman40, et al. showing those.
I believe that you’re most likely ok using the timing marks and setting as described in your latest posts above. But if you want, you can always double check where TDC is to verify. Using a plastic drinking straw or similar inserted through #1 cylinder spark plug hole, rotate the pulley back and forth near TDC, temporarily marking the two positions where you can no longer feel any more up or down movement of the straw. Midway between those two points is TDC.
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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Chinaclipper
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Joined: October 03, 2019
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Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2025 6:53 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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| bsairhead wrote: |
If that's a dimple on the rear side of your pulley at 6 1/2 before TDC. You need to go back to the drawing board.
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Hmm. I guess I have figured the dimple was 5° ATDC......Honestly I am not sure that IS a dimple on the rear side. Maybe its just a paint mark by the PO?... I'll sand it a bit with some 1500 or so.....
Am I wrong?
If so I am still running a bit retarded........
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bsairhead
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Joined: October 08, 2008
Posts: 4543
Location: viroqua wi.
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| Posted: Mon May 05, 2025 10:09 am Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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| Chinaclipper wrote: |
If the pics you posted above are of your current distributor, that's an original "DVDA" style distributor. But if it's currently configured / connected like you mentioned in your earlier post ("single vacuum line distributor"), then it's acting as a "SVDA" style distributor. Nothing wrong with that, though -- in fact, that's the way I prefer to run them myself. You just need to use the 7.5° BTDC idle timing setting when connected that way -- i.e. w/ the vacuum advance side of the can connected (i.e. the nipple angled down & left), and vacuum retard side of the can disconnected (i.e. the nipple pointing toward front of car).
The corresponding vacuum advance nipple on the carburetor is the one located on its left (driver's) side. The vacuum retard nipple is on back side of the carb, and should be capped off if using the distributor in "SVDA" mode. |
If that's a dimple on the rear side of your pulley at 6 1/2 before TDC. You need to go back to the drawing board.
Got it! The second picture is indeed, the DVDA distributor, but it isn't mine! It's just a picture I found for clarifying the DVDA.
Mine is indeed the SVDA. I looked!
UPDATE:
I got the timing mark re-done. I used the very right side of the yellow dab to get the 7 1/2° BTDC. .. I think I'll just use that.. Or maybe if I get real brave I'll file a notch.. Sounds very gunslinger-ish....
Anyway, she runs great, After I reset the static timing, I had to bring the idle waaaay down, of course. I set it at 950rpm, but I do notice I have a little glow on my generator light after hi-way speeds and then return to the streets; you know, when you have to stop for the lights. Almost no "bogging" tho off the line, especially when warm. It isn't perfect, yet, I'll monkey around a bit with it to try and get it just right.
I drove her down to Palmyra, about 15 miles, and back. It's on the interstate, and a bit "roll-y hill-y", and she did well. Seems to run best at about 68 mph, but can run at 70+ mph too.
It's good to have it run so well, it even sounds better, runs more smoo-oother, and has more power, I can really tell. Thanks everyone.
Until the next one.....[/quote] |
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Chinaclipper
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Joined: October 03, 2019
Posts: 815
Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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| Posted: Sun May 04, 2025 7:02 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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| baldessariclan wrote: |
Excellent - glad to hear that you got it running better!  |
Hehehe You and me both.
I will get a timing light with the advance feature. I think I can get one at HF.
I took a road trip from Lincoln to Grand Island and back yesterday with the grandkids.
Oldest was driving my truck with the towing stuff just in case.
Youngest was her co-pilot.
Middle was my co-pilot.
We had a blast. We went to Tommy's Diner in Grand Island and had a nice lunch too.
Performance:
Average speed: 70MPH (it's pretty flat, and straight  )
Total gas consumed: 8 gallons; not even a full tank. I use 87, no ethanol
MPG: I'm saying about 24.5 MPG.
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baldessariclan
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 2159
Location: Wichita, KS
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2025 11:38 am Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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Excellent - glad to hear that you got it running better!
One last piece of advice along these lines -- once you've got the all the other ignition adjustments made and the idle timing set to 7.5° BTDC, recommend that you then check the maximum mechanical/centrifugal advance alone (i.e. excluding vacuum advance effects).
This is done by disconnecting the vacuum line(s) (important!), revving the motor to 3,800 - 4,000+ RPM, and reading the total amount of ignition advance at that point. For original & in-spec. distributors, this should normally fall within a 28° - 32° BTDC range. But for distributors that are old & worn, modified, or aftermarket copies, this can be a bit less certain...
In general, you want to keep the total amount of mechanical/centrifugal advance limited to no more than 32° BTDC, to avoid pre-ignition pinging and damage to your engine. So when you do this test, if your reading is higher than the 32° BTDC limit for your distributor, you'll want to re-set the timing such that the maximum mechanical/centrifugal advance is at 28° - 32° BTDC, and from that point let the idle timing fall wherever it may.
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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Chinaclipper
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Joined: October 03, 2019
Posts: 815
Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 4:33 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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If the pics you posted above are of your current distributor, that's an original "DVDA" style distributor. But if it's currently configured / connected like you mentioned in your earlier post ("single vacuum line distributor"), then it's acting as a "SVDA" style distributor. Nothing wrong with that, though -- in fact, that's the way I prefer to run them myself. You just need to use the 7.5° BTDC idle timing setting when connected that way -- i.e. w/ the vacuum advance side of the can connected (i.e. the nipple angled down & left), and vacuum retard side of the can disconnected (i.e. the nipple pointing toward front of car).
The corresponding vacuum advance nipple on the carburetor is the one located on its left (driver's) side. The vacuum retard nipple is on back side of the carb, and should be capped off if using the distributor in "SVDA" mode.[/quote]
Got it! The second picture is indeed, the DVDA distributor, but it isn't mine! It's just a picture I found for clarifying the DVDA.
Mine is indeed the SVDA. I looked!
UPDATE:
I got the timing mark re-done. I used the very right side of the yellow dab to get the 7 1/2° BTDC. .. I think I'll just use that.. Or maybe if I get real brave I'll file a notch.. Sounds very gunslinger-ish....
Anyway, she runs great, After I reset the static timing, I had to bring the idle waaaay down, of course. I set it at 950rpm, but I do notice I have a little glow on my generator light after hi-way speeds and then return to the streets; you know, when you have to stop for the lights. Almost no "bogging" tho off the line, especially when warm. It isn't perfect, yet, I'll monkey around a bit with it to try and get it just right.
I drove her down to Palmyra, about 15 miles, and back. It's on the interstate, and a bit "roll-y hill-y", and she did well. Seems to run best at about 68 mph, but can run at 70+ mph too.
It's good to have it run so well, it even sounds better, runs more smoo-oother, and has more power, I can really tell. Thanks everyone.
Until the next one.....
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baldessariclan
Samba Member
Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 2159
Location: Wichita, KS
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 9:20 am Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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| Chinaclipper wrote: |
| Well, this is starting to make perfect sense. When I originally got the car (waaaaay back in 2018) I do remember a separate cannister that was mounted on the left hand side of the engine compartment, but I don't recall it had anything hooked up to it..... |
That's an altitude compensating valve, which went with a throttle-return delay (pollution control) device installed on carb when they originally came from the factory long ago. These components are mostly defunct and generally long gone from cars you find nowadays. They can pretty much be ignored or removed, IMO.
| Chinaclipper wrote: |
THEORY: a) Someone replaced the original DVDA with a SVDA and disconnected all that "clean air" stuff. OR: b) I do have the original DVDA distributor, and I plugged the back port up. Oops....
THEN: If a), re-time to 7.5° BTDC, re-set idle speed, and be happy; or if b), restore vacuum line to front part of carb from rear of DVDA and time as per suggested. |
If the pics you posted above are of your current distributor, that's an original "DVDA" style distributor. But if it's currently configured / connected like you mentioned in your earlier post ("single vacuum line distributor"), then it's acting as a "SVDA" style distributor. Nothing wrong with that, though -- in fact, that's the way I prefer to run them myself. You just need to use the 7.5° BTDC idle timing setting when connected that way -- i.e. w/ the vacuum advance side of the can connected (i.e. the nipple angled down & left), and vacuum retard side of the can disconnected (i.e. the nipple pointing toward front of car).
The corresponding vacuum advance nipple on the carburetor is the one located on its left (driver's) side. The vacuum retard nipple is on back side of the carb, and should be capped off if using the distributor in "SVDA" mode.
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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Chinaclipper
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Joined: October 03, 2019
Posts: 815
Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 8:39 am Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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| baldessariclan wrote: |
The 5° ATDC idle timing setting is strictly for use with fully functional DVDA type distributors, which is what your 1971 Super originally came with, and hence what your references' information is pertinent & applicable to.
However, if you are running a 34 PICT-3 style carb with a SVDA distributor setup (which is what it sounds like you are describing above - "single vacuum line distributor"), then you want to be using approximately 7.5° BTDC for your idle timing setting.
Trying to get a smooth idle and good performance with your current carb + distributor combo and using a 5° ATDC timing setting is nearly impossible. I.e., that's running it at about 12 to 13+ degrees retarded from where it's supposed to be, and thus makes for a huge degradation in acceleration performance, along with upper RPM fuel economy & power!! |
Well, this is starting to make perfect sense. When I originally got the car (waaaaay back in 2018) I do remember a separate cannister that was mounted on the left hand side of the engine compartment, but I don't recall it had anything hooked up to it.....
I wonder if that was part of the "clean air" thing... I will review my distributor, and see if it has the extra vacuum "nipple" on the back like someone elses' stock picture shows. Did that extra port on the back of the DVDA connect to the front of the carb by chance? I know there is a open port on the front of my after market 34PICT there I have capped off.....
Hmm, I don't think there's a port in the back of my distributor. Gonna hafta' check. . I would have thought, tho, I would have noticed it. Did I plug it up the open port in the back maybe?? It was a while ago Hmmm.
THEORY: a) Someone replaced the original DVDA with a SVDA and disconnected all that "clean air" stuff. OR: b) I do have the original DVDA distributor, and I plugged the back port up. Oops....
THEN: If a), re-time to 7.5° BTDC, re-set idle speed, and be happy; or if b), restore vacuum line to front part of carb from rear of DVDA and time as per suggested.
BTW, I looked at prices for the original DVDA distributors.. 
So, more things to try. Thanks everyone.
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Cusser
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baldessariclan
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Joined: October 14, 2016
Posts: 2159
Location: Wichita, KS
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 6:31 am Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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| Chinaclipper wrote: |
| I am timing my 71 super, with a AE 1600 DP engine, currently statically timed at 5° ATDC as per just about every reference I have. It is running a single vacuum line distributor |
The 5° ATDC idle timing setting is strictly for use with fully functional DVDA type distributors, which is what your 1971 Super originally came with, and hence what your references' information is pertinent & applicable to.
However, if you are running a 34 PICT-3 style carb with a SVDA distributor setup (which is what it sounds like you are describing above - "single vacuum line distributor"), then you want to be using approximately 7.5° BTDC for your idle timing setting.
Trying to get a smooth idle and good performance with your current carb + distributor combo and using a 5° ATDC timing setting is nearly impossible. I.e., that's running it at about 12 to 13+ degrees retarded from where it's supposed to be, and thus makes for a huge degradation in acceleration performance, along with upper RPM fuel economy & power!!
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1971 Standard Beetle — fairly stock / driver
baldessariclan -- often in error, never in doubt... |
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Chinaclipper
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Joined: October 03, 2019
Posts: 815
Location: Somewhere in the great Midwest
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2025 5:54 am Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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I know it's a old post, but, heck, it's a good place to start.
I am timing my 71 super, with a AE 1600 DP engine, currently statically timed at 5° ATDC as per just about every reference I have. It is running a single vacuum line distributor, I have no idea if it's stock or what. I have a aftermarket 34PICT carb. (my Solex is not happy right now, pse no haters)
I have a stock pully (I believe) with one notch, which I take to indicate 5° ATDC.
From idle, and "off from a start" I always seem to fight that little "bogging down" thing. Especially when the engine is cold. I have checked and set points (currently at 48° with the dwell meter), I have the idle set at 900 RPM, using the accepted method of setting idle, the accelerator pump seems to be working, and no evidence of a vacuum leak anywhere.
I am wondering if the distributor cam or whatever is a bit worn, and maybe I can advance the timing a few degrees and see if I correct the problem?
Thoughts please
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ashman40
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Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 16730
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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That degree wheel only shows BTDC marks and references on the TDC mark so may not work well for adding ATDC timing marks. Also it may not help if you don't have a TDC mark to center on (not all pulleys have a TDC marking).
It can be helpful to note where 270BTDC (or 90deg ATDC) is as this is where the crank pulley woodruff keyway is located on all ACVW engines. This slot is at 9-o'clock on the ID of the crank pulley when TDC is straight up, as seen on the degree pulley below.
Using this keyway as your reference you can ID where TDC is located in case your pulley does not already have a TDC mark.
I made this paper template a few years back.
It has lines that extend to the center of the wheel. This way you can cutout the center and line up the 270deg line with the center of the woodruff keyway at the 9-o'clock position.
Print it out full size and it should be a 7-in diameter wheel.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Pez 
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Joined: September 16, 2003
Posts: 617
Location: East Texas
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| Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2021 8:18 am Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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Bringing back this one from the dead because I came here looking for a printable degree wheel. Link is dead or gone, can we get this added to the first post some how?
https://www.hot-spark.com/Hot-Spark-009-VW-Type-I-Pulley-Degree-Template.pdf
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Cusser
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Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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| ashman40 wrote: |
| The above timing notch appears to be the 7.5BTDC mark. That leaves the '74 crank pulley with a TDC dimple and a 7.5BTDC notch. |
Looks like a TDC dimple and a 7.5BTDC notch to me.
I've used a paint pen to paint marks on my own pulley, you can see some of those here. "B" is bottom dead center (or TDC for #2 and #4), and 32 BTDC is for total advance. The TDC mark is not visible until the engine is rotated clockwise a little more.
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1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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ashman40
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Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:39 am Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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| Amzoch wrote: |
This is my pulley, AS engine, 1600dp. should I timing it on 5 ATDC which is dent? and marked behind is TDC? nor should I timing it at 7.5 btdc?
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The above timing notch appears to be the 7.5BTDC mark. Using the table above there were only two pulleys with a TDC dimple and a single notch. It is unlikely you have the 1950-1965 crank pulley which has the notch marking 10BTDC. That leaves the '74 crank pulley with a TDC dimple and a 7.5BTDC notch.
Whether you should set your timing to 5ATDC or use the 7.5BTDC notch on your crank depends on the model of the distributor you have installed. Look to the model# stamped into the metal body of the distributor and look up the # on this page to find the recommend timing.
http://www.oldvolkshome.com/ignition.htm
Backup site: http://fullmoonbusclub.com/forum/topic/144?page=1
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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ashman40
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Posts: 16730
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:30 am Post subject: Re: help using timing light |
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| kaupu714 wrote: |
| My timing should be 5 ATDC according to my manual. |
Ignition timing should be based on the distributor you have installed in the engine. In the decades since your car left the factory the distributor may have been replaced with a different model. Before we assume it still has the original distributor and should be timed at 5ATDC you should confirm the model# stamped into the body of the distributor. You may need a mirror since the numbers are typically on the front side of the body.
| kaupu714 wrote: |
| First, i have my timing light set at 0 degrees and the TDC dimple on the front of the pulley lines up with the split on my case correctly. |
???  If your advance timing light is set to zero and the strobe is showing the TDC mark lined up with the case split at idle then your idle timing is TDC (zero deg). Zero on your timing light means it is not changing the strobe pulse and is flashing at the instant the spark pulse is detected thru the inductive pick-up..
| kaupu714 wrote: |
Second, I set my timing light to 5 degrees.
My question: Should the TDC dimple on the pulley line back up with the split on my case or should i line the v notch (5 ATDC) mark on the back of the pulley line up with the split on my case? |
With your timing light advance is set at 5deg, adjusting the distributor so the TDC mark lines up with case split will result in a timing of 5BTDC even though it visually appears to be timed at TDC.
The advance timing lights can be used to set any "BTDC" timing using just the TDC mark. As far as I know the advance setting on your timing light CANNOT be used for setting timing to ATDC values.
The function of the timing light advance DELAYS the strobe pulse. So a spark pulse that normally comes 7.5deg "BEFORE" TDC (7.5BTDC) can be delayed by the timing light to appear to come 7.5deg late when the TDC mark is just passing the case split. It cannot accurately strobe BEFORE the pulse is detected which is what you would need to have an ATDC timing pulse show up early.
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Amzoch
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| Posted: Mon Apr 23, 2018 10:21 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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Hi,
This is my pulley, AS engine, 1600dp. should I timing it on 5 ATDC which is dent? and marked behind is TDC? nor should I timing it at 7.5 btdc?
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kaupu714
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Location: Huntington Beach, California
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| Posted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: help using timing light |
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My timing should be 5 ATDC according to my manual.
First, i have my timing light set at 0 degrees and the TDC dimple on the front of the pulley lines up with the split on my case correctly.
Second, I set my timing light to 5 degrees.
My question: Should the TDC dimple on the pulley line back up with the split on my case or should i line the v notch (5 ATDC) mark on the back of the pulley line up with the split on my case?
My timing should be 5 ATDC according to my manual.
Thanks for any help
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Unlimited Editions
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Location: UK
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:27 pm Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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Thanks for the helpful straightforward advice!! i'll ad the strobe with the advance feature to my shopping list... haven't owned a ray gun for a while!!
It makes sense that is a TDC mark now as the dis is not pointing straight at no.1, this must be the advance? think I'm getting it! SLOWWWWLY. |
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Cusser
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Posts: 33349
Location: Hot Arizona
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| Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Timing Marks on Stock Pulley |
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Good response AshMan40 !!
I have a vintage timing light that doesn't have an advance, so I tend to forget that newer ones typically have that.
_________________
1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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